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Tyche, thanks, you are very right about it. Artemis was basically used to secure the slot/frequency rights for own future satellites. But Hylas 2B is just some payload rental on the Astra 5B 31.5 E - probably a deal post frequency right dispute between SES and Avanti few years ago, ending in favor of Avanti.
so we do own Hylas 3
but intend to use it in one of the three slots ??
Hylas 3 satellite, also known as EDRS-C, which has a Ka-band payload owned by Avanti in addition to a data-relay payload financed by Airbus Defence and Space and the European Space Agency.
Thanks totally understand
cheers ...
Hi Cheap, Hylas 2 b is still very much alive, it's 3 GHZ on Astra 5b satellite with about 13 years left.. Artemis has de-orbited after being bought for a nominal fee at near the end of its life but did produce some good revenue for the company as disclosed in recent RNS, good bit of business.
https://spacenews.com/avanti-ses-bury-hatchet-with-ka-band-spectrum-deal/
H2B, formerly known as Artemis, is de-orbited I believe. AVN owns three slots, currently: H1 33.5W, H2 31E, H4 21.5E. Later on H3 will share same slot as H2 on 31E.
AVN may relocate these birds as they want, as long as they stick to the 3 slots they own.
Buko
No - AVN own 3 slots.
In the recent Trading Update Paul Walsh noted that "I am also pleased to confirm that HYLAS 4 is in excellent health and is currently undergoing in-orbit testing at 21.5E whilst at the same time securing that slot for future business. The satellite will move to its operational position of 33.5W in July." i.e they had extended the life of 21.5E by placing H4 there during testing thereby retaining the right for another 3 years.
H2B & H3 are not AVN satellites (they have part of the payload) are therefore do not give ownership to their slots.
Hope that helps.
oldpabear so based on the slot value off
haylas 1/2/2B and haylas 4 and I suppose H3 as a slot for next years launch then the value wound be more like
$300M.!!
if i'am reading your post correctly ...
Thank you oldpabear. There is a similarity then (for example) to North Sea licenses with a threat of 'use it or lose it'. They are cheap because to use it needs lots of capex and all that entails. I realise that the Verizon purchase of Straight Path for its spectrum is probably not a good comparison example as a spectrum covering USA will be more valuable than spectrum in Africa. But there is a value there by the sounds of it and we've completed our part of the bargain by the looks of it. I'm cautiously optimistic.
Romaron
To answer your question I would quote from a research note 2 years old....
"It should be noted that geostationary orbital slots are limited, and are registered and overseen by the International Telecommunications Union (ITU), which allows operators rights in perpetuity once a slot and spectrum has been allocated. Providing the slot is used, the maintained register provides significant frequency protection. Artemis provided Avanti with its third orbital position at 21.5oE, adding to HYLAS 1 at 33.5oW and HYLAS 2 at 31.0oE. Avanti must place a satellite in that slot within three years of its deorbiting to maintain its rights. Several satellites can be co-located on orbital slots by the same company if frequencies do not interfere. This gives Avanti the potential to develop its network in the long term.
These slots have a value, as they can effectively be traded. Intelsat, the largest global satellite company based in the US, includes them on its balance sheets as a non-depreciating intangible asset at around $60m per slot. This implies an unrecognised asset value for Avanti of $180m."
Hi WO, I wasn't trying to compare ISAT to AVN but they are aware of each other and do talk in their small world. I don't know enough about satellites to see why ISAT might want AVN, bits of it or none at all. They did kick the tyres once before so I guess at the right price they'd pick something up. I also asked if spectrum had any value and I'm guessing little or none. HIS summed it up with the 'build it, they will come' approach and I mentioned before, this spectrum is a bit like STOOIP and mostly not commercial and likely to stay in the ground [oil]. Because of this it is cheap to acquire like oil exploration licenses. We've built it and are waiting confirmation that customers are coming? (this also involves the positioning and commissioning sign off). By its very nature this is a risky approach but there is also the old adage that 'build the best mouse-trap and the world will beat a path to your door'. No doubt H4 has its uses and fans but will there be enough?
My other comment was that rightly or wrongly ISAT turned down the approach from Echostar. There is no holding in ISAT large enough to force the board to sell. That is not the case with AVN.
The likes of Solus have lost a fortune and will see the situation differently to AVN management. They aren't sentimental.
Well at least we have a date and confirmation that the Indonesian government will pay in full, $20 million odd makes a small dent in the finances we need to raise to keep the business afloat. A few more lucrative contracts by the end of July and maybe the business survives and hopefully a credible long term plan for revenue. Currently, things are a slow.
Yep Romaron, you haven't either disagreed with him, presented him with logical argument as to his errors, or just plainly stood up to someone who is clearly a bully. I'm very happy to be on his 'elite' list on all counts! ;-))
20 odd mill bucks is not going to make that much difference but at least we know that it is on its way with a defined date. It all helps
WO, I very largely agree with you and your analysis - and "wait and see", at least till the end of July, is all that can realistically be done. I'm duty-bound to state that I'm very definitely less optimistic than you in terms of outlook.
Also agreed that many VSAT operators - including AVN - have made the self-same "if we build it, they will come" wrong assumption. At least H4 is over a geography where it has some chance of making a degree of commercial sense though, but to me, the question for AVN remains, is it too little, too late to make up for all the dramatically missed commercial assumptions that have dogged AVN almost from the get-go? They've certainly hit and in many cases exceeded all their expenditure forecasts, but to date haven't got anywhere near hitting the resultant essential revenue/GP targets... hence the ongoing flaky state they find themselves in.
We'll just have to see how this plays out over the next 10 or so weeks.
AIMO.
No, it's still there Fri 12.00 and I don't think you can remove posts yourself. If you've got me on filter and logged in the post disappears. It's how I make the board more readable.
I don't know whether the tentacles of this Isat (potential) deal reach as far as Avanti but I noted a couple of points that might be worth discussing. ISAT may have entrenched management and lacks a key shareholder. Lansdowne, Jupiter, Artemis are all big but none big enough to lead the negotiation. Avn are different.
Then there is this from RBC 'in our view, the offer is a ‘low ball’ one, especially given the potential £10 per share of spectrum value that we believe Echostar could derive from owning Inmarsat."
We own spectrum rights but are they worthless? [It has rights to orbital slots and Ka-band spectrum in perpetuity that covers an end market of over 1.7bn people.] Perhaps a poster who understands these things could comment as I don't intend to become a google expert in 10 minutes.
ITS STAYING UP
ITS STAYING UP
ITS STAYING....HYLAS 4 IS STAYING UP.
LALALALA
HOPEFULLY AVANTI IS TOO.
S/S You really need to keep out of the sun mate .
ITS GOING DOWN
ITS GOING DOWN
ITS GOING...AVANTI'S GOING DOWN
LALALALA
SIGNED
fat LADY
GCCRa, perhaps if you grow up, you'll be able to take part at least to a small extent in a reasoned and adult discussion of issues on a stock such as AVN.
Your trite, childish and moronically misplaced insults against those who bother dealing in facts rather than immature and blinkered assumption shed a far more laughable light on you than on your intended targets - but that's something that it takes a little smarts and a lot more maturity to understand. I won't be holding my breath for the penny to drop for you any time soon.
Anyhow back to the adults - Blowntobits, good post below and I take the point re Q3, but like you, I think PIs at this stage deserve a lot more clarity than having to read between the lines.
I'm sure GCCR adds value to society but not when it comes to discussing shares
Our mission is to educate you such that you have some value to society GCC. Sadly, not accomplished now, nor anytime soon (if ever).....
Cut and paste from RNS :
"Furthermore, if the Restructuring completes but the Company is unable to raise Additional Funds of at least US$50 million and secure US$40 million infrequently recurring revenue in pipeline by 30 June 2018 then based on the projected cash flows of the Group, the Company will, within the 3 months following 30 June 2018, be highly likely to be unable to pay its creditors, as and when they fall due for payment. "
So from 30th June - Not deadline 30th June but 3 months from - so could go to September (I hope). We should either get a corporate action by then or be told that the long slow grind to success is possible. Are the Sales Force up to the challenge I wonder?
Agree, just now, except for the insiders on this board (who are keeping very quiet), that we have no idea other than the last April RNS and that an RNS is overdue.
The fat lady has not sung yet boys and girls. The brave are slowly loading up, these really low volumes indicate just how few shares are in circulation. The big boys are hanging in there, they know where this is going.
Enjoy the summer, it will rain and storm before end August, just as the situation with AVN will resolve one way or another.