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Last post: foreveralone9000, 7 Aug 2023 17:40
Is this even possible? If it ever came back and got listed again surely it would have another ticker symbol? and be a completely different company?
I am wondering if I could get some advice I have the shares just sitting in my ISA still - is there any chance I can do anything with them. I cant even sell them or get rid of them? does anyone else have a similar situation and is there even a small chance these shares may in 10 years become active again?
Sorry to disagree Tyche, but it is the same Company YOU invested in. It's just that you don't have any financial interest in it anymore following the wave of debt holder bailouts required to keep it going.......
Hi Tyche,
Im the type of person who always holds out hope, (rightly or wrongly)
going by past experience, one example is when i thought one of my investments had been wiped out because this company i had invested many thousands of pounds into de-listed, and there were all sorts of things going on, like accusations of corruption in the company, bad management etc.
Then a few years later, unbeknown to me, the company had been taken over, changed name, and re-listed on the aim market.
Then out of the blue some time later It suddenly appeared on my share dealing account, and all of a sudden i was up by a few hundred pounds.
The amount was not much to get exited about, but i did make a profit, after having thought the company had died a death.
Maybe this is one of the reasons why im slightly optimistic...
Hi LongTrek, I think there is zero chance any PI will ever seen any money it should be written off. I follow Avanti they are doing well winning awards and some big business but its not the same Company we invested in.
Well it does seem that the business is still alive and kicking, but like you say, of no consolation to P.I.s or will there be?
Its kind of like a rebirth, if they can aquire $100 million per year than it looks as though theyll be on the road to recovery. asked if Avanti could reach this figure Kyle says' We’re a little bit short of that at the moment, but that’s what the revenue expectation will be for 2023 year-end. There are about four or five commercial initiatives we just need to deliver in the next 12 months and we’ll be there'. Well thats a good positive statement, now im not sure whether they ever will re-list, and if they do then the question is ; will we ever get back some or even all of our past investments?... or is it lost in space?!
Im no expert on tax affairs, but i believe you can phone up HMRC and tell them about the situation, that way hopefully they may offset it against your earnings.
You could also go online with HMRC and try do it that way. Good Luck with that.
Wondering if anyone can help point me in the right direction.
I have lost thousands with this sham- wondering if is it possible to contact HMRC and inform them for tax reasons.
if so what benefit does that actually entail and 2nd how do I go about that is there a form that needs to be completed?
Many thanks!
So it looks like this is the final nail in Avanti's coffin.
No doubt Im on of many who feel like weve been scammed by this outfit.
Last post: foreveralone9000, 28 Apr 2022 14:56
What a scam
And there you have it. The larger lady has finished her last warble and is exiting stage left. A complete shambles, but one that was increasingly likely once it was clear that the EBITDA was never going to exceed the interest payments given the growth of revenues. Those PIs who learn the lessons here will be better investors going forwards, though admittedly, that's a very scant silver lining behind a humungous black cloud!!
In case anybody still living in hope of some money for shareholders. Page 14 of the administrators document says: "There will be no return to the Companies' shareholders as there will be a material shortfall to the Companies' creditors".
I will just leave this here...
A bit of a disgrace for senior management getting paid millions
https://www.erieri.com/executive/salary/kyle-whitehill-51hj
I don't think any management bought in and purchased any shares at all so they couldn't care less they were just looking after themselves and focusing on screwing over the old shareholders.
Dan, you're right - I hadn't heard of a PP before - everyday' s a school day I suppose! So, do we think that the management will buy the Company on the cheap, or just that the debt holders have finally pulled the plug and will try and get what they can for the assets?
Started: alfredcat, 13 Mar 2022 11:05
Last post: DanSteely, 12 Apr 2022 08:16
Why are they not publishing the accounts?
Are they hiding good news, surely not! Perhaps, head in sand may make it all go away.
Accounts will likely say that there are grave doubts about Avanti's ability to continue as a Going Concern and that may scare suppliers, customers, and the whole wide world.
They are trading on JP Jenkins I say trading mind you... I don't think they have actually had any trades go through JP Jenkins or no clear data that I can see the Current share price is 0.12 GBX so literally not even half a penny. I am long 100k Shares in them but basically lost thousands. I have emailed them asking WTF is going on with their lack of accounts being outdated no news since 2021. But no suprise no response. I actually even shouted to them about the JP Jenkins page was literally blank https://jpjenkins.com/company/avanti-communications-group-plc/ which they did update. But again never actually got back to me.
What I do find interesting is the fact on linkedin they are still hiring employees etc... Currently I think they have around 200 staff. Really ****ed off with them though at least Publish the f*** accounts man! They are acting like cowboys if they just published the accounts people would have at least more faith even if it's bad news. It looks worse doing nothing.
They aren't trading - they are still delisted. Apparently there was a broker where you could trade in theory, but I'm not sure whether that ever really happened. You were right to write it off as a loss.
hi all, i bought avanti communications in 2009 at £2.25 before they launched hylas 1 after launch went up over £7.00 i remember the directors offloading millions of share after quoting that these would hit £20 i stupidly hung on for a while and then sold for around £5.00. i later bought a few thousand at a lower price that went down to zero and delisted i wrote it off as a loss, are these actually still trading and at what price please and what market ? thanks in advance x
Started: MattTheBrave, 2 Mar 2022 12:54
Last post: cassius, 12 Mar 2022 18:05
Didn’t Solus hold about 40%? If so, how have they been able to offload that amount? Who would want them ?
Thanks Dan. It's hard to say what these filings actually mean - the registration of fixed and variable charges was also announced just prior to the 2021 refinancing, so not sure if this is significant or not. the fact that Solus has now ceased to be a significant holder is very interesting though. Have they sold to the other debt holders, or a third party? Who knows, but like you, the absence of any news to say the refinancing has been done leads me to expect the worst here.......
MTB, I think the Companies House filing looks to have provided some hint that the ship is sinking or a White Knight is on the horizon. Loyal believers (fools) remain in the dark with no accounts as you reminded us of this fact. It has been a long painful journey and perhaps pulling the plug may bring respite.
So, the 1 year debt extension agreed last year ended on Monday. Astonishingly, there has been no news as to whether this has been rolled again, or whether the debt holders have finally put the company out of its misery. Given that we still haven't seen any results since H1 2020, the signs aren't good........
Started: petere, 7 Sep 2021 18:58
Last post: MattTheBrave, 26 Jan 2022 15:03
Hi Dan - 99% of my posts here are in response to someone else, the other 1% (like the last one below) when a thought occurs. No compulsion involved (unless you count the compulsion to responded when addressed, which I think most of us have). Cheers!
Thank you Matt. I wish I'd listened to your warnings earlier. However, we are where we are. However, you seem to have a bit of an obsession with this company. I have 'lost' a fair bit with my investment here but even then I am not obsessed. Why the compulsion?
Probably also worth mentioning that the debt which was rolled from last year now matures at the end of this month, so expect some form of announcement imminently!
*BTB
Ah, but is it a corpse BTM, or is it a going concern which will rise phoenix-like from the ashes with a zillion backhaul contracts, pay back the debt, re-list, and make all the minority shareholders multi-millionaires.....?
(Spoiler alert - it is in fact a corpse....;-) )
Started: MattTheBrave, 20 Jan 2022 10:36
Last post: MattTheBrave, 20 Jan 2022 10:36
...the Company still hasn't posted it's 2020 accounts according to the Companies House website. In the first half of 2020 revenues grew by a disappointing 6%, and the Firm made an ebitda loss. Note that this is even before 30mn of depreciation (write-offs) and 40m of interest (some 50% higher than H1 2019). I'm assuming the delay in accounts is not because there was an unexpectedly rapid improvement in H2, and lord knows what happened in 2021! There is only so long that the debt holders can allow this to continue in my view, unless by some miracle, they can start winning huge backhaul contracts (Tyche's argument I believe).
Started: DanSteely, 12 Nov 2021 11:04
Last post: MattTheBrave, 24 Nov 2021 13:44
'Still going strong' eh Tyche? Well I'm sure all the other previously minority shareholders who lost all their money will be delighted to hear that.! What a guy lol!
Hi Dan, Yes Avanti still going stong. I know people who work there they are very busy. I see Matt is still massaging his EGO. What a guy lol
I don't feel as bad after seeing the 40 page shareholder listing filed at Companies House for the issued share capital of 2,163,335,585 shares.
They have still not filed the overdue accounts.
The website still says that they are wonderful :-)
Started: DanSteely, 9 Nov 2021 10:50
Last post: DanSteely, 9 Nov 2021 10:50
I wonder if the value of Avanti is affected by yesterday's acquisition of Inmarsat by Viasat.
Let's hope for further consolidation in the sector and the possibility of some respite for long suffering shareholders in Avanti.
Started: Kpatel4, 4 Apr 2021 19:12
Last post: MattTheBrave, 20 Aug 2021 10:33
Boards like this need people who are not holders. Every holder is positive by definition, and hence if you only have holders posting, you'll simply have one view with everyone just bolstering each others' biases - exactly what you had on this Board. Folks with a different view were then castigated. Group think is a great way to lose money, but some people never learn.
Not got the strength to communicate with you any further, you just don't get it. Enjoy hanging around a board you supposedly have no interest in.
Like I said before, none of us have a financial interest here anymore, so by your own definition, you are also a moron then? You can't have it both ways - was I someone who has 'been burnt' (and hence DID HAVE a financial interest) or someone with no interest - can't be both.
Anyway, clearly you never heeded my advice before, so you're unlikely to start now, but might I suggest you read DanSteely's post below because he get's it, and he was in the more positive camp previously.
MTB - the only moron here is the one that keeps coming back to a board to comment on a company he apparently has no financial interest in. Sad.
I stayed in because I allow my portfolio room to purchase shares of speculative stocks like this one. But don't worry the odd £500 I chucked at it won't keep me up at night. Thanks for trying to explain things to me but clearly you have been burnt in the past and hanging around to take pleasure on others loss. Not me though as my portfolio is doing just fine with Avanti or without. Maybe get out a bit more especially now the restrictions have eased. Good day.
There is no need for unpleasantness and rude comments.
MTB was correct with the warnings as hindsight has proven. Investment tick, Business development tick, Growth opportunities tick, Unsustainable debt BIG TICK.
Perhaps, some of us could have done better to listen and to heed the warnings. We all live and learn, sometimes.
The company (and group) is definitely in a mess because all accounts filings at Companies House show an OVERDUE status. It could be disagreements about Going Concern doubts preventing accounts being signed off. Not long to go fully bust, I am afraid.
Started: briangal27, 8 Feb 2021 21:41
Last post: MattTheBrave, 15 Mar 2021 16:51
Good thanks Dan - trust all is well with you? If by 'good work', you mean making good money in these markets through a sensible risk controlled and diverse portfolio, and helping out fellow investors with less experience, then I can confirm that this remains very much the case. Thanks for asking.
Hello Matt
I trust you are keeping well and continuing your good work.
Tyche would have saved himself a lot of money if he'd only listened. Oh well...;-)
Yes Briangal27 I agree it's wise to right off the investment, they need to sell all of Hylas 3 in one go then concentrate on the backhaul market to survive which I hope they do.
Tyche I have written off my investment here but hope they survive in some shape or form. The new team appear sound but even after the last debt for equity they have had too much of a hole to dig out of. All the best.
Last post: OXBIGTIME, 2 Mar 2021 08:02
My SIPP valuation gave me £30,000 for my 250,000 shares (my total investment over 3 years was c. 65k) so I looked into it.
JPJenkins put me straight, they said no, not 0.12 p per share (as on their website) but 0.0012 so only worth £300.
If 2.2billion shares are out there (Solus 41.5%, Great Elm 9.06%) that values the total shareholding in the company at just around the £300,000 mark. 220000000 x 0.0012 = 300k.
I'm moving my SIPP from Curtis Banks to ii. Sadly have to sell the shareholding to do so. £300. Lol.
Here's my trading history:
ACTION DATE SHARES HOLDING SP COST
ACCUM
BUY 22/10/18 50000 250000 4.8 2408.49 64637
SELL 14/08/18 -100000 200000 5.61 -5601.01 62228.51
BUY 07/06/18 20000 300000 5.35 1077.99 67829.52
BUY 07/06/18 30000 280000 5.35 1612.49 66751.53
BUY 11/05/18 30000 250000 6.39 1925.63 65139.04
SELL 11/04/18 -20000 220000 5.05 -1001.01 63213.41
SELL 11/04/18 -20000 240000 5.195 -1030.01 64214.42
SELL 11/04/18 -20000 260000 5.22 -1035.01 65244.43
SELL 11/04/18 -20000 280000 5.42 -1075.01 66279.44
SELL 10/04/18 -40000 300000 5.65 -2251.01 67354.45
BUY 06/04/18 40000 340000 11.15 4468.99 69605.46
BUY 23/02/18 50000 300000 10.82 5418.99 65136.47
BUY 16/02/18 40000 250000 9.04 3626.99 59717.48
BUY 01/02/18 10000 210000 9.52 960.93 56090.49
SELL 19/01/18 -60000 200000 8.88 -5319.01 55129.56
BUY 12/01/18 10000 260000 8.54 863.39 60448.57
BUY 10/01/18 40000 250000 8 3208.99 59585.18
BUY 20/10/17 8123 210000 8.28 681.41 56376.19
BUY 20/10/17 51877 201877 9.4 4885.43 55694.78
BUY 16/06/17 40000 150000 10.88 4350.24 50809.35
BUY 30/12/16 10000 110000 21.74 2185 46459.11
BUY 20/12/16 30000 100000 25.82 7757.25 44274.11
BUY 25/10/16 10000 70000 26.99 2710.25 36516.86
BUY 05/08/16 10000 60000 47.96 4808.75 33806.61
BUY 05/08/16 25000 50000 48 12011.23 28997.86
BUY 27/06/16 5000 25000 59.45 2983.75 16986.63
BUY 24/06/16 13044 20000 61.75 8066.35 14002.88
BUY 24/05/16 6956 6956 88 6132.53 5936.53
SELL 16/10/15 -2000 0 231.675 -4622.25 -196
BUY 18/09/15 2000 2000 220.75 4426.25 4426.25
64637
100,000 here. As some stage I expected a consolidation perhaps 1000:1 even. The small shareholders like me are actually irrelevant to the company, perhaps a small irritation. Over time Jenkins will be moping up, the big holders adding to theirs. The ex bondholders still expect to get a return hence they saved the company. At some stage it will either go bust or be sold - we might get a tiny amount per share perhaps 10p? This is some way off and the company must be profitable first, that actually looks less likely each year to me.
I am just siting on my hands on this one, I consider this be be a total loss, for that's what it is in reality, but I hang on in part to be a very small bug in the big ocean. Might use any capital losses for CGT purposes in two or three years time, by then the future will be clear for our company.
As you say a lesson learned, well actually several lessons !!!!!!
I am not going to give JP Jenkins the pleasure of making a big return on my holding (relative accepted).
Lost 60k. Chased losses all the way down. Have I learnt a lesson. No. I did the same with OXB and that worked. Got a reply from investors@Avanti when I enquired about my 250,000 holding. Reply is:
Avanti has approximately 2.2 billion shares currently in issue. In order to assess value you should liaise with JP Jenkins at www.jpjenkins.com. JP Jenkins operate a matched bargain facility that has been open since the de-listing.
Anybody else in the same boat?
Started: MattTheBrave, 5 Feb 2021 12:49
Last post: MattTheBrave, 5 Feb 2021 12:49
..results available.
https://investor.avantiplc.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Avanti-Communications-Group-LTD-Interim-Results-v1.13-03.01.21.pdf
No great reading - revenue growth of 8% is still not enough to clear losses (ebitda loss of $30m, with over $40m of debt servicing costs on top) which means the net debt pile keeps growing, and interest costs get larger. I think you need revenue growth of 30% or more before the viscous cycle gets broken, but as there satellites and technology gets older, this becomes more and more unlikely. I'm afraid none of the old minority shareholders are getting anything back from this.
Started: LongTrek, 16 Jan 2021 09:33
Last post: inthepub, 16 Jan 2021 16:36
my thought exactly regarding 5g, going to be plenty of room for many on that and maybe even avanti. not holding my breath though, written this one off years ago. maybe one day in the future my shares might even have enough value to cover the dealing costs. but, hey, u cant win them all
Well Avanti is still very much alive and kicking, fundamentally the business is secure and moving forward, (albeit very slowly) with a massive coverage area such as EMEA the potential is still there, In a crowded satellite market Avanti just need to fill their satellites to something close to capacity which will bring in some strong revenues, making inroads with the American military, 5g network, Nano SAT H, etc. all bodes well for future revenue streams..
Same as loads of other small shareholders who believed in the company's purpose, I hope that we do get some sort of return at some point in the future. Keeping fingers crossed.
'what happens to our shares?'
Well, nothing really. The share capital of the company doesn't change when it goes private; it just means they cannot be publicly traded on an open market (like AIM).
A lot of shares were issued in a debt-for-equity swap a few years ago, so I'm hoping those prior lenders may be prepared to wait a couple of years then (if cash flows in from sales) maybe get paid a dividend (along with little me).
I continue to hold too in hope that we see recovery as the potential of the company seemed to be great a few years back and I liked where they were potentially heading. I to hope that they return to stock market but if not and they continue functioning the way they are now albeit managing their debt etc what happens to our shares?
The price fail low in the final minutes, sub 1p. The months before delisting it was hovering around 9p.. most felt split between whether it was boom or bust. My personal sentiment was the company was shadowed/ anchored by its enormous interest payments. By the time these were dealt with the market had lost confidence and the share price was having a detrimental effect to securing new business (the connotation was Avanti was really unstable, cusp of being bust at any moment). This obviously had a real negative impact for securing any long term contracts. I wished there was another other than delisting but ultimately I think it was one of the few ways of regrowing the business. Be nice if I could shed my 75,000 I still have. I really hope they return to the stock market, but like most who still hold - I’ve come to accept this is lost money...
Started: DanSteely, 1 Oct 2020 11:15
Last post: DanSteely, 1 Oct 2020 11:15
The accounts can now be downloaded from the Companies House website. Another big loss but some murmurs of hope being shown. The past is gone so let's see what redemption the future brings us. I wrote off my investment but continued to hold the shares, and I can't believe that all that tangible investment by the company won't be able to bring some sort of benefit to shareholders.
Last post: DanSteely, 30 Sep 2020 14:16
The company has filed its 2019 accounts at Companies House. However, we have to wait 5 days before they are available on-line. Once available, the accounts should tell us how they are doing now.
Hi Dan. Here is some some news.
Full article here https://spacenews.com/after-downsizing-avanti-focusing-on-fleet-fill-rate-mulls-small-geo-satellites/
WASHINGTON — British satellite operator Avanti has no plans to relist on public markets anytime soon, focusing instead on streamlining costs while finding customers for its underutilized fleet of three satellites and two payloads.
Avanti removed itself from the London Stock Exchange in September 2019, saying the regulatory costs outweighed the benefits of being a publicly traded company.
Avanti was beginning to execute a new business strategy that focused on selling satellite capacity to other operators and the U.S. government instead of consumer broadband customers, a shift that was beginning to turn around five years of declining revenues.
In an interview, Avanti CEO Kyle Whitehill said that the company has cut operating costs by shedding 25% of staff since delisting, reducing the company to 240 employees.
“We still have a great business with significantly less people,” Whitehill told SpaceNews. “We had a lot of people deployed against hoping we could generate revenue in some areas, rather than putting our people into where we are generating revenue.”
Whitehill said the lower headcount, coupled with renegotiated equipment contracts, enabled the company to lower capacity prices and compete more effectively across its primary markets of Africa, Europe and the Middle East.
Avanti is now focused on increasing the fill rate on its Ka-band fleet of five satellites from 48% to around 70-80%, Whitehill said, which would be comparable to the fill rates of leading fleet operators Intelsat, SES, and Eutelsat.
Avanti’s fleet-wide fill rate has lagged behind industry norms, despite its oldest offerings being fully booked. Over the past year, Avanti increased its fleet utilization rate by courting mobile network operators in South Africa, Sudan, Nigeria, Ghana and Kenya that use the company’s satellites to backhaul cellular data in lieu of fiber transport, Whitehill said. Avanti also increased its focus on selling to the U.S. military, he said, working with Florida-based Comsat to make inroads into the defense sector.
Avanti is leasing all the capacity on its Hylas-1 satellite and its Hylas-2B payload to customers Whitehill declined to name.
The company is refocusing Hylas-2 on the Middle East, and using its largest satellite, Hylas-4, for connectivity services across Africa, he said.
Avanti’s newest capacity comes from Hylas-3, a hosted payload with eight steerable beams that launched in mid-2019 as part of Airbus and the European Space Agency’s EDRS-C satellite. Whitehill said the beams are pointed over the Middle East, but that Avanti has yet to start service with them because the coronavirus pandemic has prevented the company from traveling to the region.
Whitehill declined to state Avanti’s total revenue, but said capacity sales doubled from 2018 to 2019,
I am with II and this morning they sent me a notification for the upcoming AGM scheduled for 28 September.
There are the usual AGM resolutions including BDO being approved as auditors.
As a Avanti shareholder, I am being asked to approve the 31 December 2019 accounts which I have not yet seen.
There may be a possibility that the Phoenix rises from the ashes. I suppose that it can’t really get any worse now for loyal shareholders that supported them.
I'm waiting for their accounts to be filed - Companies House deadline is 30 September for Y/E 31/12/19.
No clues on their website - but it gets updated which at least it indicates they are still in business!
Started: Blowntobits, 17 Sep 2020 10:02
Last post: Blowntobits, 17 Sep 2020 10:02
Well, our company is still alive and kicking. With the much reduced costs, even the smallest good news and revenue will have a very positive effect.
I am staying for the ride upwards. At the time of the delisting I did expect a big consolidation to remove the small fractional shareholders and then some kind of corporate action eventually leading to a re-listing or new company. So far nothing. The bond holders who stumped up did so because of the expectation of a return. Share trades have increased it seems, I expect the accounts to have some good news, not long to wait now. You could check companies house site if you have registered?
Started: MattTheBrave, 17 Jul 2020 12:56
Last post: MattTheBrave, 17 Jul 2020 12:56
Not sure if anyone else spotted this, but looks like KPMG had to resign as auditors as Avanti couldn't afford to pay them anymore......
https://investor.avantiplc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/KPMG-resignation-letter-dated-21-Feb-2020.pdf
Last post: Parsley2, 15 Jun 2020 19:45
Leo sat never had any satellites so were not an operator and only had 12 staff.
First casualty of the LEO operators, Oneweb has filed for bankruptcy can't say I'm surprised, feel bad for the staff. https://www.zdnet.com/article/coronavirus-spacex-internet-beaming-rival-oneweb-files-for-bankruptcy-over-covid-19/
New website https://www.avantiplc.com/
The demand for Avanti services is now evident globally.
It can only continue to recover and help everyone else do so as well.
Interesting article cheap, I think part of DW's problem was he was an ex banker, did great to get the finance in place but wouldn't negotiate on price which alienated the co from the market in some respect. Now the deals are going through at a much lower rate per MHZ, as is the case with the industry as whole. One thing seems clear though Avanti seems to be here to stay.
Started: LongTrek, 22 May 2020 21:07
Last post: LongTrek, 22 May 2020 21:07
Its relieving to know that Avanti are still managing to keep their heads above water,
even in these difficult times.
Though its been delisted, and close to its last breath, (its a wonder how its survived this long
with all its goings on and failing to deliver etc,) it is refreshing to realise through reading their website
that the fundamentals of AVN. are still very strong, and sought after
and proves there is still life left yet-in this old dog.
As a very long term investor here, I eagerly await in anticipation of things to come
should the satellite market ever change....
Started: MattTheBrave, 6 May 2020 17:03
Last post: MattTheBrave, 6 May 2020 17:03
"The economics simply didn’t make sense. Indeed, looking back it might make a terrific case study of how not to do things.”
Seem to remember a few of us making this exact point at the time. Can't remember getting too many 'thumbs up' on those posts........;-), LOL (There you go Dan, done both, just for you)
Last post: MattTheBrave, 14 Feb 2020 09:14
No requirement to provide info to investors. They cannot force you to sell, no, but I think that's a moot point as I don't think there's anyone who wants to buy them anyway!
Now AVN aren’t a listed company will they have to provide any financials to their investors?
Also, SS how are they able to wipe out small investors. If you chose not to sell shares then they cannot force you in to this?