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What are the alternative funding options?, please don't say "JW and AR said there was other options".... be specific as opposed anecdotal, which is what 99.9% of this board is...
You are making the false assumption that HARL needs the UKEF guarantee to continue trading. It doesn't. There are alternative financing options should this fail, as much as that thought must disappoint you.
As for your second point, no we don't owe Riverstone £200m. Try doing a bit research first, it helps. It is closer to $100m (£78m) plus interest. I believe this question was also asked in parliament last year but I can't find it - there are no restrictions on what the guaranteed money can be used for.
This also ignores the point about whether a UKEF guarantee is even a subsidy. The definition of the word "subsidy" is:
"a sum of money granted by the state or a public body to help an industry or business keep the price of a commodity or service low."
And yet the government are not the lender here, so to call a UKEF guarantee a subsidy is a bit of a stretch. UKEF are offering support in the form of a loan guarantee, not a subsidy.
I think what is concerning a lot of people (myself included) is that despite having ‘ring fenced’ a separate company on paper, how do you in any meaningful way decouple the two businesses if one is reliant on the other. Is the ferry business going to continue trading if HARL folds? No. Therefore, ring fenced or not, the ferry business is reliant on UKEF funding. There’s been a lot of bravado and bluster on this board, but no one has adequately addressed that question and presumably that’s one of the reasons why treasury is getting itchy.
On the guarantee being for ‘general working capital that must be related to helping win export orders’ I think the proposal was to use it to pay back riverstone? To me that is stretching the definition, although UKEF being a Govt agency they might turn a blind eye to this.
It's not nonsense at all.
It’s amazing what a difference the threat of shell to quit the UK has made. From brackish backwater to investment’s new darling!
Bridgedogg1 ref 08.34 post But the government is not funding the ferry business. As the guarantee is coming from an export agency as I said last week while it can be used for general working capital that must be related to helping win export orders.
HSBC have issued a positive report on the UK market, moving from neutral to overweight. They suggest the big sell off by domestic pension funds has run its course. It started with Gordon Brown removing dividend tax credit but let's not go there.
I don't really understand what's going on at present but I hope Harl and it's shareholders don't suffer going foreward....
At the moment, the work on the new ferry is being done by someone else, in their yard. Any future work done that relates to the ferry business in an upgraded H&W yard by H&W employees, upskilled or not, would be billed to the ferry business just like any other customers. I would imagine.
BC re 7:14 I prefer more modern parables, like, keep your friends close and your enemies closer. lol
Very much like yesterday, the quoted is detached. Just been offered 8.9p for 100,000. Still innit twinnit.
Is it as simple as not commingling funds? The monies will used to upgrade yards and upskill workers who will then be working on the ferry contracts. I can’t help but think that as a competitor you’d be a bit miffed with the gov funding this.
All nonsense. Do you think every company who has received an EDG has zero competitors?
Scaffman ref 06.00 post The only issue I have with this is the exposure that HARL has to a claim for breach of Article 10 ECHR.
Scaffman,
John 4.20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.
I think the poster in questions past is very relevant here. It both sheds light on the hypocritical actions and lights up there true character.
So Arun or someone else have got a leach comment removed-big deal! who really cares; and why try to make another drawn out debate about someone removing someone else's post? lets face,it you have got removed a couple of mine on here recently l.o.l. pot/kettle Keep it going Arun..
So why present it as a statement of fact: "It is impossible to ascertain if Arun removed several comments or not."... when in fact: I have absolutely no idea and do not know how to tell if a post on linkedin has been removed by?
Your comment on funding may prove to be the case [now] but as it stands its the same debt charged to Harl Holdings. Also you're suggesting the total debt goes up to £200 million + $15 million? T
I have absolutely no idea and do not know how to tell if a post on linkedin has been removed by the account holder or the administrator . I have never written a post on linkedin in, I make comments and use for research.
I am aware of the Isle of Scilly SG 's position and don't view it as a showstopper , Harl merely have to not comingle funds and the 15mm loan with Riverstone has to remain In place or a different commercial loan with charges against the two new companies. Totally separate to anything guaranteed by the govt .
X - you really need to get that paranoia dealt with! He also removed posts from two posters here that were attacking no one and neither has a short to my knowledge
Not sure that’s an appropriate analogy but to answer it. It centres on the Scilly Ferries - the Steamship Co wrote to the government regarding possible legal action
Yes the debt was known in Dec when the ok was given but subsequent to that the Company increased its debt by $15 million, it is suggested to cover the establishment of Harl Marine and Harl Scilly Ferries ( the charges against both company’s seems to support that) - if 100% loan guarantee is granted, that (Riverstone) debt would be paid by funds under the guarantee
It is this issue of debt being used to ‘fund a competitor’ to a private company that has thrown a spanner in the works in terms of UK and EU law (which applies in NI)
It’s actually very easy to see if a post has been removed on LinkedIn and it’s been done before and you knew that
What is interesting is the level of bitterness that exists here with anyone who questions things or disagrees, that they’ll turn a blind eye to raw abuse of privacy
A very different matter when it happens to them?
Thank you I don’t need you selecting my language - it was doctored to present a false impression, been done by JW and now Arun and it’s not a helpful trait in either position which is one of trust and leadership
It is impossible to ascertain if Arun removed several comments or not. I think it is highly likely that numerous people reported a very personal attack on AR & JW.
Even the use of the word doctored is inappropriate , that is used usually in court with regards to documents that have been tampered with in order to deceive.
Recall seeing a recent Twitter post from GMB union saying H&W Belfast may also be balloting for industrial action over pay.
I added 2 + 2 and got 4 !
I have little in common with BT but I respected his privacy and going forward I don't believe no matter how much certain posters just don't get on with others,I believe there should be a line drawn on personal matters and just get on with arguing about company fundamentals as much as possible. I hope you can do this?
LinkedIn is a professional networking tool. I'm not surprised he deleted troll comments attacking the company because they have an open short. Those comments belong on ADVFN.