Member Info for Fatlad

Thanks jackd, parked up now so more careful. See AHL is another 1.2% up and still no significant movement. Interim figures will not take this rise into account but may obliterate some shorting (if it keeps it up ).

sorry about the typing, on the pad again and on the move.

Not before the regulators start doing wbat thrycare paid. nuff to say, 5%fall in man's share price foe a 0.3% drop in AHL abd not a sausage upwards folliwing a whopping 2% rise in AHL.

Hi ifonlyiknew, Regarding my 'After all, the AHL funds weren't in being when Man's share price was 500p+. Mrtibs can tell us that the price was much higher due to funds that are still in being and profitable. I was referring to the losing AHL funds. The data I used comes from the current Prices & Performance section of the Man /group website and relates to that the AHL funds that are losing have an inception of 2009 and later. Whereas the AHL funds with an inception of Pre 2009 are showing profit. Pre August 2008 Man's Price was 500p+ as can be seen on Yahoo Finance historic prices for EMG.

Thanks mrtibbs and jackdawsson, Wonder why this was not leaked. 10 days like this and many of us will have to bite our tounges or keyboards, methinks. PAF,

Hi again Bunks, -0.3% drop in AHL to set off a blatent -5%+ effect in Man's share price yesterday starting 4hrs or so before the rns. That seems a lot more than exagerration, (Bloomberg Aug). However, if as we're informed by that Bloomberg article, that losing AHL funds are being withdrawn then logically AHL should be having much less impact on Man's overall performance price, not more as the sinister amount we have seen since yesterday am. I wrote about similar goings on earlier in the year. Appears to me that London Stock Market are either the equivalent of Man's recent AHL management or totally unconcerned about their reputation and believing they have no responsibilities. (Same goes for mm's) After all, the AHL funds weren't in being when Man's share price was 500p+. Mrtibs can tell us that the price was much higher due to funds that are still in being and profitable.

Thanks Bunks & jackdawsson, Yes -0.3%, so Man's pice has gone down 3.6% from yesterday 1030am, strange some got to know about the RNS long before we did at 2.50pm. However, as jackd says, most shares are up today with the financials up 1.6% or so. Meaning Man is down over 5% for a 0.3% drop in AHL, and that regardless of what the other 99% part of Man group is doing, really ridiculus. Good job I invested in other shares. GLA

Thanks Jackdawsson, I also came across that it appears that the Man guaranteed funds are underwritten by Lloyds until 2020. So if no threat to Man's cash reserves wonder if its a possibility at least that they could suspend the secured losing funds and concentrate on those profitable pre-2009 funds. I having a bit of difficulty in seeing how Man is in as much trouble as they make out if the above is viable especially remembering that Man's 5 profitable funds hold twice the net asset value of the 9 other (diversity & trend) funds. Plus GLG still doing OK.

diversities not diversiies. Sorry about tabulation, it was fine when it left my computer. Jackdawsson, good points. Just to add a bit, it was then that PLC said that Man did not need a peer. He then paid through the nose (according to experts) for GLG. i believe to thwart any t/o bid for Man. He did though include Man shares at the level you mention, 260p in the GLG deal. Not so clever for Manny etc. Wonder if he has managed to shorten his price.

Hi Mrtibbs, interestingly I have looked at the recent figures for Man funds and pre 2009 they are doing well. It is the funds since 2009 such as the trend and diversiies that are not. Inception Total Nav Daily 8/10 Last Mth YTD Last yr Ann Ret Total ret Pre-2009 412,405,096 -0.4% -0.6% 11.5% 8.2% 4.7% 83.7% Post-2009 220,121,053 -0.8% -0.3% -5.5% 0.7% -2.9% -5.0% (mainly AHL trends &diversities) Also came across an archived communication that showed rns from August 2008 showing AHL $35.93 Est Nav EMG @ 517p and stated that only two funds (diversities) were represented in the daily performance issue. That the rest of the funds were mainly monthly with some weekly. Do you remember figures like these?

Hi jackd, Was a bit down until seeing AHL latest Est Nav figures +1.5. Agree the market makers are not daft, but they are certainly not always right also not fair by any means. We will soon see as the last time AHL was this level, Sept 26th, Man's price was 87.55. So just done a quick sp on figures for Sept 30th taken from Man web site relating to Man AHL funds with Nav figures), 18 in all. Total Nav 701,676,697 FUND TYPE NAV YTD MTD Total Return Diversity 4,022,734 - 7.10% -1.40% -8.03% Diversity 14,896,246 - 6.60% -1.30% -5.40% Trend 7,737,177 -10.10% -1.90% -21.50% Trend 54,668,686 -10.00% -1.90% -14.90% Trend 1,581,560 - 9.90% -1.90% -15.50% Trend 9,351,245 - 7.60% -1.70% -6.00% Trend 23,450,453 -10.20% -1.90% -20.10% Trend 20,887,981 -10.50% -1.90% -16.20% Convertible 45,064,865 17.70% 3.80% 54.10% Convertible 18,828,929 4.10% 2.30% 29.30% Convertible 147,771,443 4.20% 2.30% 65.50% Convertible 34,554,971 1.50% 1.10% 21.70% Convertible 93,923,547 1.60% 1.10% 146% Convertible 33,022,058 12.30% 3.00% 15.70% Convertible 97,862,382 12.30% 3.00% 35.60% Convertible 26,834,053 25.80% 4.40% 121.80% Man GLG 21,698,321 3.60% 0.40% 4.60% Man GLG 5,245,414 3.40% 0.40% 4.40% Man GLG 40,274,632 3.70% 0.40% 5.30% (Commodities FUND IS also negative but not included as no Nav given) (% calculation pro rata Nav to %) Sept 30th YTD MTD Total Returns Total % +4.20% +1.41% +46.68% And the AHL overall Annual Return works out to +2.6%. Even omitting the negative funds only improves it to +3.58%. Not a lot although a slight overall improvement on last year. As you say, it is the trend funds have not been good. Agree with your earlier comments as computers are out on their own for the likes of data storage, speed of access and are reliable when treat properly but need to be controlled by expert human involvement. I too was in a dilemma and thinking of jumping out with what I have left until I did the above sp and seeing today's Est Nav. Now looking into my reserves to buy more as this is way under priced based on the majority of it's fundamentals.

AHL $1.0412, down again. Or is it? As far as I can make out AHL is made up of 21 funds, Jackd's Bloomberg link in early Sept inferred that Man were closing one of the funds. I can't remember seeing a RNS to that effect and of course Man has ceased it's commentary. So as yet I can't really be sure that AHL's is actually losing. My thoughts are, (mathematically speaking), is it not that when that fund is closed the 'high water mark' earnings figure of $128, all thing equal, should be 20/21 of that, i.e. $122. We know all funds are not equal, so there must be quite a bit of distortion while that fund is being closed.

Now at $1.0552, lowest I can recall. The Vision seems to be a bit short sighted at the moment.

HI jackdawsson, interesting posts of late by you stating drastic action req for AHL. I think I remember that your excellent posted link at end of Aug referred to the following: Man Group Plc (EMG), the world’s biggest publicly traded hedge-fund manager, is shutting a range of products that aimed to protect clients from losses after they failed to meet performance targets. The company decided this month to shut Man Vision Ltd., a $40 million pool that sought to generate returns of more than 10 percent annually, according to an Aug. 12 letter sent to clients and obtained by Bloomberg News. Man Group is also closing similar offerings that, like Vision, were tied to the performance of AHL Diversified, the firm’s biggest hedge fund, said a person with knowledge of the moves who asked not to be identified because they aren’t public...... and ended with....... Man Group plans to pull all of Vision’s investments in AHL and other hedge funds by Sept. 1, moving them into cash and bonds, according to the client letter. Clients can hold their investment until maturity, redeem and lose the guarantee protecting their initial investment, or move their money to another Man Group product at no charge, according to the firm. Maybe this is the drastic action that will turn Man's price around as it should bolster AHL's %, while stemming the outflows a bit, but not sure if it will reduce the potential income . Another of your points I agree with is that Directors need a kick up the b/s as only one has reinvested the latest dividend, as paltry that it was. If the directors want investors to put their money to give them a well paid job, surely they should invest some of their own money.

Thanks Rexco for your explanation, I had sent my post before reading yours. I fully agree with your point that the ut's are misleading, especially today's 1pt drop from last trade at 4.30pm to 4.35pm, Also, just as important, your other point regarding the regulators.

Hi bunks, would also like to know myself especially as AHL is still up on the week, which will be the third week running if it maintains. Strange thing is the share price went up yesterday opening by nearly 2pts then fell back thro' the day to finish almost parity with previous day. I missed that AHL statement for the 18th and cant find it anywhere, but from today's release for the 19th I est it to have been a 1% rise from 17th Today's release was at 11.30am with no significant change in the price until it fell 1 full point today from 88.8 @4.30pm finish to the ut's of 16.35 closing price of 87.85 with no trades in between. Wonder if the ii's & mm's know something or are they just juggling the figures to suit their books.