The latest Investing Matters Podcast with Jean Roche, Co-Manager of Schroder UK Mid Cap Investment Trust has just been released. Listen here.
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That comment right there Barry is the problem in a nutshell.
Shishir has always had the passion and desire to make TGR a success but this is a repetitive cycle. We've learnt over time that passion wasn't the issue, it was competence. He used the same tactics all the way from from 40p in mid 2023 to 4p, reassuring shareholders via email that he will turn this around, meeting any shareholder in London face to face that arranged a sit down. Every time he has exuded the same passion and slowly the whole building has crumbled to rubble and still he says the same things.
I've no doubt that Shishir is well meaning but he's also almost certainly incapable of getting out of this current mess. Are the new group capable of it? Probably not also, this is a horrible market to be so cash constrained in, so there's few good options here unfortunately but at least with change there's a chance, there's a chance for the capital markets to open up to more credible business people, there's another shot.
If the resolution is rejected i suspect the group's holdings will be sold off with it and possibly Optiva's too now, compounding the problems further.
Did anyone catch that hidden info about the US Embassy in Madagascar visiting the plant? Heavily correlated with the recent duties imposed on Chinese sources. Seems like the US govt is taking interest in what’s being done
I listened to the webcast. I thought it was rather shambolic and amateurish but I feel their passion and desire to turn things round so my feeling is that, at this stage, we need to give BOD a chance to pull it off. Changing the board at the bequest of annoyed family members is not IMO the way to get value out of TGR so I have voted against all the motions put forward through the HL shareholder meetings tag. GLA
Zero clarity on funding as usual from Shishir
I didn’t find the whole Pranagraf thing too vague. It’s an intermediary for the Indian market, and a customer that uses graphite itself. Both mean TGR sales are higher than if it wasn’t involved. Not bad, don’t think this is found anywhere else apart from maybe Japanese trading corporations.
As far as conflicts go, it’s absolutely incredible I’ve seen yesterday a disgruntled brother (Hemant Poddar) and his son (Harsh I t Poddar) have come out on telegram and appear to me to have been manipulating the whole London market because of the threat facing their own fully owned other interests by TGR and Pranagraf. Why does no one ask why are we listening to them and what their interests are, why are they trying to drive this? These people have setup rival graphite operations in India/Tanzania, seemingly whilst Hemant must have been a Director at TGR (big red flag and did/do previous directors know this?) and are actively competing against TGR, and Pranagraf seems to be outcompeting their other Indian intermediaries. Why do you think they are happy to say and do whatever it takes to disrupt the current setup of the dominant TGR/Pranagraf setup?
Very clear to me. They, and only they, benefit the most from disruption to TGR & Pranagraf’s progress.
And obviously they need front men in London so they choose the questionable brokerage to work with, and someone like Mark Rollins who has demonstrated he doesn’t care about shareholders. He helped raise and burnt through over £20m while being paid of $420k all in a single year at Advance Energy in 2022, see Beacon Energy’s annual reports. All that with nothing to show for it, no revenue no assets, why risk that happening here?
Don’t be a Turkey voting for Christmas, if I was a shareholder I’d vote against the resolutions - they stole my money at Advanced Energy. Don’t let them do it again here.
Well after that I know he’s ’on it’ but what is he on? Wasn’t impressed, video was terrible. This whole middle man thing with Pranagraph is far too vague, it reeks of conflict of interest and if I’ve understood him correct funds have been reallocated (having been raised to merge?) Lot of ‘jam tomorrow’ I’m afraid
Right from the start you could see the 2 thieving poddars were not only nervous they were afraid to talk. The amount of stuttering that went on was incredible. Shi...shir read almost every word he uttered from his notes. Puruvi sped up her sentences which showed how she must have been liquifing with fear. She actually looked unwell and totally unbelievable. Then came the video and the voice over which I could not hear. The whole charade was a disaster from the beginning. This motley crew are robbing us in plain sight and a lot of investors are doing very little about it. The court case will not come soon enough for me. They need to go. Anyone voting then in now after this dire attempt by the 2 con artists to pull the wool over our eyes again must be shorting the stock as if the piddars remain we are all bankrupt. Dyor
Thought the IMC Q&A was quite good all things considered. Very comforted to see just how much there is actually on the ground in that video, a far cry from what some have claimed on here and elsewhere is meant to be basically non-existent. The pre-concentrate units looked particularly novel but interesting.
Again on top of the RNS clarifications recently I was grateful for some further clarifications related to related parties. Encouragingly there seems to be a commitment to getting TG into the downstream. I’m perplexed this has taken so long in any fashion.
And good to hear they’ve been advancing talks for new directors and CFO. Imagine if they had been able to appoint people without having this requisition in place, again a reason I believe the FTG group chose their timing carefully but deliberately. And Again a reason I don’t believe the requisition group and their own related parties/interests they represent carry the true interests of shareholders in their hearts.
Company just did a tweet this evening that some US government representatives have been to the projects site, pretty interesting timing if you ask me following the US tariffs on graphite.
My vote is still against the resolutions. Still to be convinced otherwise, and some questionable tactics online not helping the FTG group cause.
This isn't difficult to understand. For over 2 years from inception shishir and puruvi promoted the downstream graphene business which is pranagraf and said Investors would benefit ftom this part of the Company. So everyone bought shares in TGR. Shishir then pulled a fast one and declared pranagraf an independent company that would interact with TGR. That interaction between the 2 companies is now TGR selling graphite at peanutsl rates to Pranagraf and pranagraf selling it on for huge profits. Tgr investors get a 4p share private and pranagraf get millions and I mean MILLIONS of UK POUNDS in profits. This us why we are at 4p. Dyor
Pranagraph is the middle man. In any business the middle man makes the money whilst the producers take the rap.
The relationship between TGR and Panagraph is opaque. A connection between 2 Poddar companys is not healthy when one is Private.
Not crazy about the choices on offer.
None of the parties seem to be great.
On balance, supporting the founder, as with initial investment case.
They are dancing around Pranagraf, as expected.
I wrote as much in the shareholder feedback today. Interested in cash in-cash out of that entity.
Thought about Tirupati some more, perhaps in line with what others have written:
Either they keep more cash (and advance everything more slowly, less aquisition/expansion) OR they communicate and keep good relations with banks and investors (credit and capital infusions)
They f-ed up and the graphite markets aren't great. F-ups happen. But if you run two businesses with no money cushion and no communication, you get this.
When you are in trouble everyone can mess with you: government might offer you a third of your money only, offtake partners will lowball you because they know you're in trouble, etc.
Thinking about their situation, Pranagraf may have been their crutch for offtake.
We'll see if the company survives or law gets involved.
Shareholders wouldn't be so fussy about Pranagraf if Tirupati was running profitably and everyone's investment was doing well. But they messed up and now they could have opened themselves and us to legal action or more equity loss.
Best of luck to everyone. Make sure you diversify well in venture investments. Best to think about them as zero's anyway until they work out (or don't).
What would happen if the shareholder vote goes to remove the current board of TGR and none of the proposed new Directors get appointed?
It is hidden though. They don't say Pranagraf is us. They say things like "Pranagraf is the ideal partner" and "The company again received a proposal in Aug 23 and designated an Independant NED to advance discussions with the appointed representative of Pranagraf. Discussions with Pranagraf have been re-initiated again." Who is "negotiating" with who.
It's brought up because shareholders have concerns. Why do shareholders have concerns about Pranagraph. Why hasn't it merged with TGR and how do we know were not being shafted with no profits and Pranagraph gets it all and doesn't have to share any of it with us shareholders. If the Poddars only worked for TGR, I wouldn't be concerned, but they don't, they work for the Poddars and from what I saw today, All the same stuff is regurgitated by them. It will all be fine in the future. The question is, for who.
Pranagraf profits go into pranagraf owners pockets. The owners are the poddars. Shisjhr and Puruvi boasted TSG would be the downstream part of TGR. Then TSG became Pranagraf but instead of Pranagraf being part of TGR' s downstream the poddars kept it private just for themselves. Hemant included. he will vote with his brother and niece. We were all duped. Now Pranagraf make millions and tGR are bankrupt. Thanks Shishir. DYOR
This isn’t hidden information? I don’t understand your confusion, TGR doesn’t get the profits after Pranagraf sells it on. That’s because they’re different companies..
“But the bit that grates me is the continued appearance that Pranagraph is a completely independant company run by different people” no the reason it was brought up was to talk about shareholders concerns. There wouldn’t be any point in bringing up pranagraf if it was a completely independent company would there lol
Shishir, Puruvi and Alastair was nervous certainly but when I look at what they have achieved to build the projects up to now, well..Quite honestly I don’t think anyone in the world could have done as much,as fast, and at a lower cost. This expertise is why I’m voting squarely against the new group.
The reasons why? Corporate suits who like fat fees whilst never getting their hands dirty and have zero experience of mining will never be a success. Mining is highly specialised and yes, it’s a rough and ready business. It’s from the earth, it’s down and dirty, it’s from the land. No polished London suits from the new group would have a clue to achieve any future for the company whatsoever.
Equity raise is only option
Last time I checked Pranagraph (formely known TSG) is a private company based in Mumbai. It is run by Shishir Poddar, Puruvi Poddar and Hemant Poddar but you'll have to check if Hemant is still on the board there. As far as I'm concerned there is potential for a conflict of interest because there is no independant oversight in controlling what deals are done between the companies. TGR does not get any of the profit from Pranagraph but the Poddars do. But the bit that grates me is the continued appearance that Pranagraph is a completely independant company run by different people. For clarity, it's the same people but with different hats on so I can't work out why there would be a legal reason for the two companies to merge.
My question also answered - generally I thought Shishir tackled most pressing questions head on, still in limbo until solution on capital is found though so nothing new
The propaganda video was strange with the Murat & CD orchestrated interviews but the start was reassuring to see the work on the ground, the concern is still there on workforce though with a few employees posting “open to work” on LinkedIn a couple of months ago
How will the votes sway in the EGM - who knows, the Optiva letter won’t help Shishir but I still think there’s no expertise in the requisition group, how can they close deals with prospective big customers without the specialist knowledge of the graphite & quality
Relying on IOUs is never a good strategy
Is Pranagraph a Private Company or Listed?
Curious the Pranagraph connection has taken 3 years to resolve. Is there a conflict of interest?
Shishir seemed nervious when asked if the Company is Solvent.
Written on FTG X page - What is the risk of default on the upcoming CLN repayment schedule starting July 24?
I’m pretty sure he answered this one?
If you're experiencing a mental health problem or supporting someone else, you can call SANEline on 0300 304 7000 (4.30pm–10pm every day).
No he did not , He answered 2 of mine, questions were word for word. Go and seek mental help, you are always on here bashing, you have mental issues!
Your absolutely right Whatwhatkid. Not one of our questions were answered and we asked a lot. Total fix, Just like the TSG-pranagraf situation