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Just seen this thread on the UK Defence Journal twitter feed https://twitter.com/UKDefJournal/status/1787062396973928493 In my view this is short sighted there should be a greater spread of work across all shipyards as the danger is that the Scottish shipyards will reach capacity leading to delays in vessels being built and entering service.
Who else has the capacity / skills / commercials and workforce across UK/GB? Not sure where your perceived view of the risk sits as I'm sure BAE and BAB will ensure effective PMO and PM across their portfolios. They do this for a living, unlike some.
Consuela ref 12.31 post with all due respect to you your statement shows an amazing lack of understanding of the capabiites and capacity of both BAe and BAB. The Type 26 programme is years behind schedule as can be seen from this article. BAe are indicating that they would need to use one the planned Type 26s to fulfil an order from Norway. I am not aware of any recent contract that either BAe or BAB finished on time or on budget. I note that BAB was so good at costing that in their most recent contract I forget the Type number they managed to have a shortfall of £100k. So regardless of what you think of HARL's capabilities they cannot do a worse job on delivering on contracts.
Stokey, the article doesn't mention any delays. Either way, there's various risks to programme manage, some are known and on the critical path, some aren't, these are issues, which happen. If there are delays there will be reasons behind them.
If you seriously think H&W could compete or even out compete / perform these 2, you need to give your head a wobble.
Stokey - getting more churlish by the post! To date Harl (in present manifestation) has no record of building ships for MOD, it all rests on the future performance
As regards records they were 6 months late building barges never mind destroyer’s!
Consuela ref 14.22 the article I was referring to is this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_26_frigate as you will see i has so far taken seven years from first steel cut to now and the first vessel, HMS Glasgow, is still not fully finished. I would observe that seven years is how long Team Resolute has to build all three FSS ships. It is also worth noting that despite all their experience when BAe and BAB had to do an open tender for the FSS no only did they lose to Team Resolute their bid was non compliant. So yes I do believe in a fair competition HARL could win a bid against BAe and BAB.
Stokey12, 14:30. It’s good to see your thought processes. Much better than the bumbling muttering of certain others. Well done and keep it up!
Hilarious
Poor contractor performance is endemic in the defence industry...in terms of cost and schedule adherence, and often quality too. However, not all blame can be laid at the door of industry - the Client is a major culprit in this respect. The portrayal of 'successful' outcomes is usually a PR fudge by all parties. However If BAES and BAB can't deliver there is a strong likelihood that HARL will struggle too. Experience and skills in the right areas will help a lot but will not counter the disruption of an indecisive Client. HARL needs strong management with a clear strategic intent to get anywhere near success with FSS, and not a little luck! BTW, I am a holder in HARL.
Sachyboo ref 08.21 post I agree I think that Navantia will want at sometime in the future to contract with the MoD on its own so it would be in their own interests for FSS to be a success. The problem is that the MoD does not stand up to BAe or BAB. They talk tough but quietly cave. If FSS is completed on time or early this would put pressure on BAe and BAB to start performing better.
I've postulated before that it was the ONLY reason they got into bed with JW in the first place. A MoU with Navantia was inked with Infrastrata before they had even completed the acquistion of the assests of the former Harland & Wolff. FFS was the next step, imo.
What would Navantia hope to achieve by doing that ?
It is government policy that no warship will built outside of the UK, for a plethora of reasons, not least security.
No Royal Navy Warship has been built outside of the UK since before World War 2.
Even Scotland is at risk if it were to become independent, of losing contracts.
I think Navantia are fully aware of this and I don't expect to see them try and contract directly with the MOD.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/would-uk-naval-shipbuilding-continue-in-scotland-if-left-the-uk/
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/would-uk-naval-shipbuilding-continue-in-scotland-if-left-the-uk/
Kaeren ref 11.14 post As Navantia has a UK subsidiary so it is possible that they might buy a UK Shipyard so as to contract direct with the MoD.
Would that circumvent the issue ?
Security, only British companies build Warships for the MOD.
Meant to add, as far as I am aware.
Kaeren ref 11.31 post yes as Navantia UK is registered at Companies House i is a British company.
“All Royal Navy warships will continue to have a UK owned design and will be built and integrated in the UK”
Would hardly call Navantia UK a British company if it's foreign owned. That's like trying to say HARL's office in Florida is an American company.
Xenor ref 12.03 post you make a fair point especially as both directors and the Person with Significant Control are all Spanish. That said as a legal matter Navantia UK is a separate legal person to the officers and as a result it does not derive its nationality from that of its officers. So as a matter of law it is a British company as it is registered at companies house in London. See this link https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/14100400
It is still a subsidiary company, with the parent co being Spanish. The barrier is security and imo will never happen.
Happy to agree to disagree.
Although having a foreign parent doesn't seem to be barrier for Thales UK when it comes to securing UK MOD work.
Tired hands , good point there
Infrastructure going well at Belfast yard , should be seeing some good pictures soon
Tired - nor Spirit which is American owned. The requirement in the terms is UK owned design with UK build and integration - the issue with Navantia is that its government owned within a country which we have a dispute with - Gibraltar
Harland y el Lobo. :)