Member Info for Aus3009

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/18/village-takes-bt-plans-remove-phone-box-saved-nazis/

On a more serious note press reporting more sell offs, Holland this time reported to be £100m

£ millions to ofcom

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/08/bt-pays-ofcom-uk-3-73-million-after-reporting-incorrect-turnover.html

Just seen this, it’s another scary court hearing

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-7353931/BT-faces-court-530m-Italian-fraud-law-firm-Enron-victory-targets-telecoms-giant.html

Fleccy you’re just adding inaccurate information as facts. Your contribution comes with definitive in-truths regarding ownership, even though you sell as something you definitely know about.... again. Obviously this then entirely leads everyone reading your views down the garden path. I repeat Openreach don’t own any of the network. Transferring these assets or any part of these assets would need to be considered as part of the deal account for this then shapes the proceeding unknown futures. Otherwise it’s nonsense & I think there’s already far too much nonsense around

NDN again!!!! & again you state the bleeding obvious. To stop going round and round in nonsense circles can I be direct. You say Openreach owns it (which distorts the sale story) I say it doesn’t, not even the access network (or last mile). The only meaningful part of this discussion is that Openreach does not own any part of the network.

Fleccy the thread isn’t about unknown futures, the discussion is you and NDN forming opinions on Openreach ownership today. NDN demarcation lines has little to do with ownership & more to do with multiple operators sharing the same infrastructure & therefore BT staff (direct competitors) fiddling with it. Operational Demarcation & ownership not the same thing. I. Terms of future, choices / decisions may or may not affect value, but to separate billions and billions s of pounds worth of scrap value copper would be a big pay day for its owner...... who is BT not Openreach access network or backbone isn’t part of the equation

Everything you need to know

BT own it all, Openreach maintain it on their behalf

Openreach manages BT's local access network which connects customers to their local telephone exchange, starting at the main distribution frame (MDF) in the exchange and ending at the network termination point (NTP) at the end user's premises. Openreach also manages the connections between the MDF and the BT Wholesale/local-loop unbundling (LLU) termination points located in the exchange, often referred to as jumper connections.

In March 2017, after various negotiations with, and demands from, Ofcom, BT plc agreed to divest Openreach's staff and non-network assets into a legally separate company, Openreach Limited. However, the network assets would still be owned by BT plc to ensure the longevity of leases and covenants, and Openreach Limited would still be wholly owned by BT plc's parent holding company, BT Group plc.

Openreach manages BT's local access network which connects customers to their local telephone exchange, starting at the main distribution frame (MDF) in the exchange and ending at the network termination point (NTP) at the end user's premises. Openreach also manages the connections between the MDF and the BT Wholesale/local-loop unbundling (LLU) termination points located in the exchange, often referred to as jumper connections.

In March 2017, after various negotiations with, and demands from, Ofcom, BT plc agreed to divest Openreach's staff and non-network assets into a legally separate company, Openreach Limited. However, the network assets would still be owned by BT plc to ensure the longevity of leases and covenants, and Openreach Limited would still be wholly owned by BT plc's parent holding company, BT Group plc.

Openreach do not own the network or ducting, BT Plc does. Openreach only operate and maintain the network on behalf of BT Plc. Openreach is literally manpower and ordering systems. I think even the tools they use are owned by BT Plc (but I’m not 100%) sure about the last bit.

Mr rooster... & you don’t think Johnson’s need for trade deals won’t result in BT / Openreach being thrown under the £350m campaign bus in preference for American firms.... like for instance Comcast (sky) & Liberty (virgin media) ?

Maybe DT don’t want a fleet organisation? Or 300 office sites ?

Non sense. The destruction of democracy happens when stupid people worship lies and liars. When 3 funded campaigns (funded by who?) sew division in 3 different ways & still never explain what people were voting for. I assume you’re so far gone you’d like to see people who haven’t lost their minds sent to concentration camps? Sure sounds like it to me...... as if shouts of “enemies of the state” & “Will of the people” wouldn’t make you wake up to the evil behind Brexit ..... as if the enemy of democracy is more democracy..... you’ve been conned, quicker you work it out better for everyone

Bertram - just to help you out there. That’s not democracy it’s tyranny..... I’m surprised to see such an infantile comment from you regarding democratic opposition to stupidity. Looks like Brexit can poison anyone. Funny that.

Zib, I admire your confidence. The fact still remains that Comcast continuing to use Openreach is ideologically opposed to their entire cable investment, sums of money which make filling in gaps where virgin cannot reach look like petty cash. Let me just run this by you again, ideologically 180 degrees opposed to the reason why they exist, their cable services development and chances of DOCSIS scale. I put the chances much, much lower than the certainty you profess.

Donvan- that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality. Therefore a lie is a false representation of fact or reality & deception is knowingly mid representing reality, fact or truth. An example of which would be bendy bananas or more recently claims of EU regulations for transporting fish, which was also not entirely untrue. For me personally uninformed opinion, deliberately fed to people, with he intention of deceiving them or to promote an agenda would also fit that category. (Take your pick)

Donvan- Confucius quote "Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.". Part of my point about voting for lies and liars and then wondering why?

As an addition to my last Brexit is relevant to this discussion because this is about chaos as a result of Brexit. Brexit was in fact a vote for chaos, which by definition isn’t always the kind of chaos you wanted or thought you were voting for. It only gets worse from here is my view

Hey Pete, of course you are right about sweeping Brexit statements, I was provoked by the breath taking leave world view and how that makes my attempt to process & interpret incoming Information as some kind of “enemy of the state”..... the view I am reporting is purely an attempt to stitch these things together into what I think is a possible or even likely outcome. I see this morning press reports that BT has also registered this risk and is pushing BT to act faster.... again not necessarily a good thing if BT had other medium term plans..... for me, this is starting to come together and begins to explain why market analysts Are behaving as they are towards Bt. I’m not sure whether BT policy being driven by a cable threat or a cable threat of expansion is helpful. My concern is Bt could be pushed into spending money set aside for other things too soon. Boris, trump, American cable giants, trade deal, U.K. weakness & trump methods come together to warrant consideration / discussion

Fleccy - you really are a piece of work “ people like you” .... I’m not quite sure who you think you are? I define you by your Brexit vote, I believe many will in the future, but that’s between you and who ever. I assume “people like you” does not refer to thirst for understanding or an ability to question information in an attempt to identify risks and opportunities. I assume based on your simpleton Brexit performance you have been groomed to think such things as heresy? There’s no opinion from me that you should buy or sell, I’ve not even expressed whether this information is positive or negative, only that your dismissal of it did not incorporate the information within the hypothesis. Those being Boris looks to be a puppet of Bannon & trump, the U.K. now has an organised American cable threat in Comcast (sky) & liberty (virgin) who are already looking to cooperate to increase network, full fibre is number 2 or 3 on bojo’s plan you think this is good for Bt, the alternative is bojo needs a trade deal with trump, trump has a strong upper hand & i’m Identifying he might use leverage to make sure his American cable companies are given a leg up over BT...... along with cheap poor quality meat, Huawei and anything else. Your response is cost ( that’s the point U.K. government will in some way be paying) and Openreach buildings (where cable rollouts do not significantly use Bt buildings) as reasons to dismiss. Pointing out this opinion is not negative, it is a realisation of how operating conditions and old certainties have changed. As for non urban areas, this again is pointlessly silly, these cable giants are not interested in anything that won’t make money, if the government will make it pay for them, they will cable it, if not they won’t , either way is as good a business proposition for Bt as duct or pole rental was last night. I’m saying bojo, trump, weak negotiating position, trumps mode of operation, cable giants now established & their probable attitude towards cable NOT incumbent provider adds up to significant change, even if that means sky using cable where it can rather than Openreach. All these outcomes look plausible to me, an opinion I’m sharing, but is one that does not make me a “ people like”. Even if Farage has told you they are out there to get you

Okay so virgin have used Bt ducts for 2,000 extra homes..... so are you saying BT Openreach has a bright future as a duct reseller?... the other pact if that article is 60 to 65% of homes have access to virgin media’s access network. To answer the third company question it would be an investment vehicle essentially carrying dept (after the governments money has been absorbed)

Pacey i don’t know why you continuously miss the point in trying to make. It seems pretty obvious to me the American cable industry will be talking to trump and Boris & this will be on the trade deal agenda, Boris is already telling us it’s high on his list. These companies will lay cable any where the U.K. government pays them for. Currently bt’s Network is worth less than £20bln...:. The market is telling you this every day