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Can someone explain to me how the shorters make money if they hold the shorted stock for so many years. How do expect to retrieve profit if they are paying to borrow stock for so long?
How do they expect to see this going any lower when everything is pointing to a recover to at least 170 levels?
I dont get it?!?!
Nomad, as i understand it, they don't physically hold the stock. They borrow it for a prescribed period, dump it on the market until they reach their desired short level (e.g 101 in PFC case). Then they give back the share they hold at 101, pocketing the difference in price between the 2 periods!
In this type of market, the shorts are playing a high risk game & they know it! i can't see them attacking PFC at the moment. Results time could be interesting. They simply used the SFO announcement in January to instil fear in investors, hence a lot of panic selling!
Just look what they did to Rolls Royce around rights issue time. Clobbered it right down from @240 right down to 101. Once they were done & dusted & rinsed enough retail investors of all their money, they pushed it right back up to 250 within a week!
I'm expecting the shorters to hit Boohoo big soon, worth watching that one!
So do we know what price these shorts gone it at.
The amount of companies that are shorting PFC
The amount of shares each company holds.
When each company specifcially bought their shorts...
And one you cant answer....In the face of an alledged Super Cycle, Covid ending etc called on multiple from why havent they bailed.
Very interesting.........
Neversellshell - your views do not make right just becausr you say "very interesting".
The best hedge fund manager - Bill Ackman - got his short on Herbalife wrong and lost billions $.
Yet he was the guy with the "big short" as C19 took hold. He made £2.9B with credit hedges.
There are reasons shorts don't close - like purely they assume the worst on SFO.
They could be wrong so they stand to lose tens of millions of on their shorts.
There are a few shorts that shorted PFC at £4 and they HAVE LEFT.
THEY ARE THE ONES WHO WERE RIGHT! Do you not understand?
Please develop your thinking a bit. Shorting PFC at £1.20 is stupid, "not very interesting".
If find it more interesting that AQR was nearly 5% short of PFC in OCT 2017 and closed their short in May 2019.
That is "INTERESTING".
You people coming to de-ramp when the best shorters (AQR) have left - you have missed the boat.
So did Cape and Rey Bay. They will be proven wrong. I've always said that after the best shorter left, AQR, pfc become more interesting prospect. No one cares what the late-train muppets do like Cape. They missed the boat on their short when PFC was over £4. The facts are PFC in seriously undervalued, SFO will have to finish soon, oil price is recovering, PFC is getting into green energy. Plus future divis. There is nothing not to like here, apart from SFO taking a hike. Any hedge fund shorting at these levels is plain dump. That is a fact. Just ask AQR.
Paddy- hedgies did not close at 101p.
They missed it. So the last 2 shorts cape have are under water losing millions, plus the fees.
CSB, it's intriguing how it all works. I was of the understanding when all the manipulation goes on, the protagonists start buying in big once they've sapped a share dry so the bounce happens. Here @101; RR 101; IAG 159(pre rights) Nonetheless IMO this has to be one of the most hugely undervalued propositions about at the moment. I really don't see why this can't be a huge multi bagger over the longer (5-10 year term)
Hi CSB,
A bit disappointed in your comment which are completely incorrect.
Out of my hundreds of Petrofac post I would love you to point out just 1 that is decamping which is what you accuse me of. In fact you will find several where I have attacked deramper....the last one being 8.29 on 5th March...
I have a very significant sum invested in Petrofac and like most of us are hoping the future is positive....
My comment about shorts being very interesting as I clearly explain was to try and ascertain how they work, where they started etc...
Anyway life is to short to fall out with people either in person or in a share chat board,
Good luck Amigo....
NSS
Personally, after watching this board for several months I can say that Neversellshell22 is not a shorter
So to be clear Chris, these people are currently not shorting PFC but will do from £1.60...
That doesn’t make much sense (to me)....
Surely they would short for a reason or with expectations of something and not on a whim....
Very Interesting......lol
CHRI55, please read up about GME, AMC, BB, TSLA. It's not one way traffic. I don't expect this to be hugely shorted at the moment. Oil far too buoyant. Why do you come up with a price of 160 as when the shorting will happen?
That what I thought.....
Possibly one of the worst stocks to short......Unless there is some kind of leak or corruption....
Onwards I say.......
Chris, you are so full of BS. I cant be bothered to argue with your ridiculous explanations. Just thought I'd call out unsubstantiated BS in case any inexperienced PI's ate taken in.
ATB
i think he sold out on Friday & now wishing he'd stayed in. This should be well on the up next week. OP finished Friday @12 month high!
Chri55: They [shorters] always pick on a stock which has bad news coming. Hence why they have only just started here…..
Shorters have no prior knowledge of specific bad news - if they did then there would be a closer correlation between shorting positions and price movements and you would be seeing serious investigations into such allegations.
PFC has been shorted by professional funds for at least eight years and has hardly ever had less than 6% reported as ‘shorted’ in the last six years: https://shorttracker.co.uk/company/GB00B0H2K534/ . At the end of January the reported shorts had dropped to 7.1% but have since risen back to 7.96 according to this source.
If you study the interactive chart of shorts against the sp and compare the dates of peaks or significant moves then you’ll see some correlations (eg May 2017) but the relationship is not as simplistic as you might suppose. So if you are expecting to see shorts closing out in direct proportion as the sp recovers then, in my opinion, you are wasting your time. However, the chart does seem to indicate that the Hedge Funds do not share the same expectations for PFC as most of those who post on this board.
Correction: PFC has hardly ever had less than 4% reported as ‘shorted’ in the last six years (NOT 6%).
I am holding since £7 and have managed to average down this year. Petrofac has always been targeted by shorters because oilers and service companies are subject to enormous volatility. This stock is easily manipulated and historically falls an average of 10- 15% following results, regardless how well received. It’s big attraction was a 6/7% dividend. Times are tough for PFC but hopefully not bad enough to send it over the edge. Blackrock and ilk seem to have some access to info on the company as it plunged the day before the SFO announcement in 2017. The SFO don’t want to let this one go and I believe having David Davies on the board and the. Ex Chairman and his wife being party donors means it will have to be allowed play out with the government on the sidelines. The fine will not be allowed to ruin the company but unfortunately the taint of the SFO has and is affecting its business. I am holding.
That really isn’t correct AD66 is it? Where you say that ‘Blackrock and ilk seem to have some access to info on the company as it plunged the day before the SFO announcement in 2017’
If you check the sp on Investing.com and also Google the SFO’s announcements then it is utterly clear that PFC’s sp plunged on the same day as the SFO announced its investigation, ie 12/5/17,The price was pretty level the day before - opening at 817 and closing just 2.5p down. The price subsequently tanked to a low of 345 over the following weeks.
Any sudden increase in shorting immediately prior to such an unexpected event would undoubtedly have drawn intense scrutiny. Some investors may despise shorters but they are a fact of life and they are ordinarily only successful with over-valued stocks. Their continued interest in PFC should be regarded as a warning rather than a challenge. With OP rising there may be a stimulus for new contracts that will lift PFC but lead times can be long.
God help this share if oil was not going up.
Think I will leave this one too the shorters.
This is a 3-5 year + investment not a 3-5 minute one. couple pence dip is not a crash or cause for panic!
I apologise for the misinformation regarding the ‘drop’ pre May 2017 SFO announcement. My view, shared by some on here was that shorters had increased prior to RNS releases. I quite agree that they are not the whole story here but when one takes hits to pensions etc based on skilled manipulation it leaves a bad taste. Fortunately I can wait and thank you for your research
Exactly Paddyboy
My pot has been decimated by the crash, but also jumping around too much. MM’s pulling your pants down all the time.
Sit on your ar@e and buy dips, stop moaning about the day to day and just hold.
Or trade and whine like girls, but worse causing panic in BB’s