Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
BoldlyGo
You are right the war will not last forever but Nato stole russian foreign reserves and have put strong sanctions on them, these will not been withdrawn overnight.
Deep scares between nato and russia now. Putin could nationalise all western assets in russia and we can do nothing about it, the bit treaties and leverage is over. World will never be the same again.
Everyone is sayin the first deal is better, but there was no guarantee that the money would have been given in those periods. What if putin decides to fully close the taps in winter what will west do?
Candian kincross also had similar deal few months ago, 680m deal agreed but last month deal was reduced to 340m. Not much they could do, anything is better than nothing.
Its closure, amc ceo did an proactive interview last month where he said amc have limited options now and its gonna be tough.
Even if he was voted out another of the parasites would just step in and carry on the same.
Ask yourselves. In the future would you put money into a company that our BOD were involved in.
If the answers no then why should you be forced into putting a percentage of your money into AMC going forward.
We’re being scammed.
Not entirely sure RY will have a job for life, regardless of the outcome of the current offer. Presumably he can voted out , when is he up for re-election next?
Fair enough RR but all we get here is negative comments.
This company, for now, belongs to the shareholders and we shouldn’t be scammed out of it.
My problem is with RY recommending the first offer.
After it was rejected he should have stepped down.
He has zero credibility and can’t be trusted.
To think he will walk away from this with a job for life gets my back up.
Vote no to nothing other than a full payout to shareholders and see how long it takes RY to find a better offer.
All I’m say is.
If you see the future so clearly.
Where were you before this war started. You could have told everyone and we could have sold earlier.
As I said, just guessing and scaremongering because a sale now suits you.
Now, if our useless BOD offered all the money to shareholders and closed the company, I’d vote yes in an instant.
Lowbands
As I see it, and only my thoughts and opinion. If the vote is no then there are two outcomes,
Wait for another offer or wait for better times and keep the asset.
I don’t believe another offer would be forthcoming as the Russian Federation are in total control of this game. Any offer would have to come from a Russian entity and be approved by the new Russian committee. Those who might be in a position to offer will already have been either warned off or a deal done.
If we keep then how long before the situation improves and we cane progress, 5, 10 years. By that time we will have been frozen out by the Russians as no western entity will invest. AMC will then default on their obligations to progress and the Russian Federation will just take the asset back. We will then have nothing.
I am not waiting for that to happen.
How can you know the war won’t end next week.
How can you say sanctions will hit us.
You just guessing.
More more to the point, how can you be that gullible that you believe this BOD will find a way to make us money going forward.
I’ll spell it out in big letters.
THEY ONLY CARE ABOUT THEIR SALARIES.
They will take the money and deliver sweet FA as always.
Lot of scare mongering going on today.
Why exactly would we end up with nothing if we vote no ?
Nothing is certain hear and a better offer could follow a no vote as it would still be peanuts compared to the potential gains for the buyer.
Is it a punt, of course it but only 2 things a certain since the first offer.
The BOD are happy to shaft the shareholders. First time offering nothing and the second a pittance. In both instances they came out laughing.
If they have to find a better deal for the shareholder so they can keep their jobs, they need to pull their fingers out of their A-holes and do it.
Zac has not lived to dream of Amc. For a few of us here we have looked at in on a daily basis to see the progress (or not) that’s being made.
From the days of the £1 per share party dream to where we are today.
The original deal gave the shareholders nothing except a promise to invest the initial payment of £25 million. The rest was not guaranteed.
This deal at least gives us the money and still have some shares.
I’m voting YES
Hufc1908
That' an ignorant assessment from Zak Mir. Nothing new there then.
TDT
Interestingly enough, sometimes the judgement of investors here, even in their own sector backyard is somewhat questionable. Earlier this year the management of Amur Minerals (AMC) presented a deal worth $105m. This was quite an achievement given that the company’s key asset is in Russia, and after the Ukraine invasion, looking a little vulnerable to say the least. This week resulted in a $35m deal, with the shares rising more sharply than
https://twitter.com/Share_Talk/status/1556243994090344448?s=20
https://www.share-talk.com/traders-cafe-with-zak-mir-the-week-in-small-caps-sunday-7th-august-2022/
This deal is worse than the last one - 1/3 of what was offered; a little more upfront, no royalty payments.
How about, 35m with 10 annual payments of 7m, that would be a slightly better offer.
The strongly worded RNS is designed to frighten us and appears to have worked.
So maybe it will be accepted this time, unfortunately.
The war can't last for ever, Russia will be skint and want a return to normal relations.
We have enough money to sit it out.
If Spiv get's this now he will flip it, probably to a Chinese outfit, for a cool 10x.
yes, this is still a 50% winner for me, not the 400% is should have been, but i have slept on it and and will take the 50% profit and their are plenty of small to mid cap opportunities to double the money every year, and i will be watching for those. I ignore the more proverbial comments on here, just simple rational decision has to be made, i feel sorry for those who will actually take a loss if the sale goes through, but i have also taken a bitter loss on POG this year..so i will take this small profit and embrace it and take inspiration form it and get many more like it in the future.
ask yourself this question....
will the SMO be concluded before winter sets in?, will Ukraine and Russia agree a cease fire? will Ukraine cede territory to Russia? will Russia back down?
could the war be in stalemate through winter?
could Ukraine and Russia rearm through winter?
could Russia declare war in Ukraine and call up reserves and go full invasion with Belarus helping?
is it likely the economic change in Russia west relations reverse in the next 2 years?
can Amur minerals find another buyer in the next 12 months?
could amur minerals declare force majeure and or run out of operating funds?
all very influential answers one should consider when making this very unwelcome choice.
As gutted as i am, bordering on heart broken, i am going to accept and make afresh start with the dividend and hope amur reinvest well and get a few pence for my holding down the road.
What makes you think it's different anywhere else? In Russia it might be more brazen but Glencore, Rio Tinto, Beny Steinmetz, Vale they're all at it.
You can't blame them for taking advantage of an opportunity when it presents itself who wouldn't? The fact of the matter is our options are limited. If there's nobody else in the frame, and at the moment it's doesn't look like there is, then it's a take it or leave deal. If we leave it we are likely to end up with the middle of a Polo mint.
TDT
TDT
Stay up but it’s interesting background on AMC’s suitor - this is a shakedown not a deal
https://www.ruscrime.com/politics/dealer-of-all-russia-what-is-happening-with-the-mining-assets-of-sviblov/amp/
Gwm, if its not in an Isa, my understanding is that the special dividend is taxed as income subject to your allowances etc. Ie on top of your employment earnings and or pensions etc.
The capital loss only occurs if you sell your shares at a loss. Also this cannot be offset against income though, only against other capital gains.
So you are pretty much right with your thinking.
Gwm, do you have your shares in an ISA?
PLEASE could one of you accountants categorically say if the special dividend can be treated as a capital gain/loss
Otherwise there will be a huge capital loss... AND A TAX CHARGE ON THE DIVIDEND received ! That doesn't seem right
Even when news article was stating an offer of 100m was put in directors wanted abit more, long term holders were still saying it was low, then war happened amc got screwed.
In current situation, amc lucky to get $35m.
Maestro- I wouldn’t say AMC s/holders are lucky, in fact the complete opposite is true. The latest RNS says a deal was on the table in Feb 22 - if the horrible war hadn’t started then I think we would have seen 7-10p per share, and could have possibly been negotiated upwards. But life isn’t fair, just ask Ukrainians, so we will take this offer and move on.
Katstrangler
I dont think they will allow it to fail this time around, total of 22% voted last time around and i feel proxies may buy shares under 1.8p and get it passed.
Sviblov recently completed cut price deal for kincross russian assets last month, the end is near with amc russian asset.
If the shareholders agree to deal then Putin will allow it to be sold. Sviblov recently completed deal with Kincross for their russian asset, 2 months ago they agreed $680m but last month they agreed cut price of $340m due to russian war. So 50% discount in a few months.
https://interfax.com/newsroom/top-stories/80224/
Amc holders should be lucky they getting something back.
they are v keen to be forced into longer term holding and the end of the war for a 'better' outcome. i might well get into this if monday sees a substantial dip in the price. maybe not even wait for the vote but for the bounce back to 1.2. don't trust the lthers though... they already nixxed a price 3x higher. i feel they'll spend their life forever wishing they'd taken the last offer. won't be surprised if russia turns the screws further. might be a better outcome but no idea who'd be willing to wait for it except those so deeply in the red they'd rather see zero than a fraction.
Hufc
"Putin could issue a special waiver in certain cases for the deals to go ahead, the decree said, and the government and the central bank should prepare a list of banks for the Kremlin's approval. The decree mentioned no investors by name."
Svidlov is getting the asset on the cheap, he is an oligarch so it will be done..