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Clued
“Just curious, who were the operators ?”
When you’re in a trading environment it’s not uncommon to get unsolicited propositions via word of mouth. I know enough to identify these paid flunkies ramping no hoper stocks just by reading a post or two. Almost always obscure small caps, which are about to become the best thing since sliced bread. Remember, if they had money of their own, they wouldn’t be selling stock to finance their operations.
From my experience, the type of people who do it are losers and washouts, and very unconvincing. If they had any talent they could make much more money playing straight.
ToffA, "I’ve been offered paid ramping of no hoper companies by unscrupulous operators."
Just curious, who were the operators ?
Abject
Deceptive ramping is relevant to every one of these boards. And posters should be made aware of its existence and learn to root out the offenders.
I have seen people lose tens of thousands of pounds on junk stocks on these boards through rogue manipulators.
To my knowledge there is no such activity on this board.
Hi toff
I have no comment on other boards.
Please do not add to convoluted and misguided messages here where you and others are inadvertently linking Bt group stock to the experiences you and or others feel in other boards or how you or others feel toward other stocks.
Bt is a stock in its own right. Your opinions should be solely on Bt group and independent of other views, to the benefit of Bt board members
Poker
“fabricated lies to push prices up further and further, bringing in sucker buyers who are then saddled with the most risk and potential losses from overpaying , having been mislead about the situation,.... “
Absolutely. And these boards are loaded with dubious posters who ramp mostly small cap companies that have little hope of survival.
I’ve been offered paid ramping of no hoper companies by unscrupulous operators.
Something I would never do.
" What I am against is rogue hedge funds that target perfectly good companies with fabricated lies to drive the SP down while simultaneously shorting."
Yes, indeed so Toff.... and if you are a non-holder you watch it happen and see if you can buy low down on ths back of their work
But, ..........you also get that, at the other end in a different form
....fabricated lies to push prices up further and further, bringing in sucker buyers who are then saddled with the most risk and potential losses from overpaying , having been mislead about the situation,.... this time, those holding let it happen hoping they too will find suckers to sell to and take the most profit
Everything that happens at the short end, happens at the long end.... often by the same people wearing different hats
Mustn’t forget that shorters are also buyers, the only difference is that they do it in reverse. Sell now - buy later. And in the event of any positive news a heavily shorted stock soars, far more than one which isn’t, on short covering. Paradoxically buyers also sell, so in a manner of speaking they also short by selling. Too much paranoia and ignorance about shorting from those who don’t understand market dynamics.
What I am against is rogue hedge funds that target perfectly good companies with fabricated lies to drive the SP down while simultaneously shorting. Case in point - the boiler room operation Shadowfall’s persistent trashing of Darktrace while shorting the stock. I can’t see how that can be allowed, it should be outlawed by the toothless fairy that calls itself the FCA.
Here’s hoping Shadowfall and their boiler room acolytes got ruined by their vicious Darktrace shorting crusade.
" should the price drop below £1 then you can be sure it'll pull in a lot of buyers "
Fleccy
If there is "chaos" and "turbulance" as was the scenario Savage was indicating then ...as always.... the City and many others would be cautious ...and the Bears within the Investment banks take a lead over the Bulls..
The Bulls tend to let the Bears take the lead , in such scenarios...and let them do the heavy lifting to then make the price cheaper for them,
Why would you pay more than you need to when you know the Bears are going to give you a helping hand ??
In such scenarios the sense of "undervalued" doesnt really come into it...what does is the mere chance of getting in cheaper, thanks to the Bears working with the external market chaos and turbulence
If dividend is kept the same but still share price keeps dropping to below £1 then I would sell either all of itv or centrica and pile in, bt has a higher dividend of .077 against.05 and .04🙏🏽
Fleccy
"The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent"
Keynes
Remind me about Autonomy (back a few years), fairly high share price, and the FT was basically slating it on a weekly basis. In short they did not believe the price reflected the company, and they were suspicious of the figures.
Quite a few short positions were on the stock.
Low and behold, HP turn up and buy it (I smell burning shorts), laterHP found out that the FT and shorters were right, but....that quote again.
The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
Also...
Shorters themselves have virtually zero effect on the shares. Why, because whilst the sell may depress the price, the buy being an equal amount may lift the price.
The ultimate effect is therefore neutral.
As regards a short squeeze, that is very unlikely given the daily turnover and the small amount of short interest.
It's not an AIM stock, not yet anyway.
"There wont be strong buyers but there will be sellers , with any buyers only wanting to buy... cheaper ...IMO"
Poker it's just as well you put an imo on the end of that comment, since the lower BT's price drops the more resistance due to bottom feeder buyers. Everyone knows BT is undervalued at current levels, should the price drop below £1 then you can be sure it'll pull in a lot of buyers. A £1 share price would value BT at under £10 Billion and £9 Billion at 90p , I would suggest the there would be a lot of buyers at sub £1.
As I read it, it is MS that have the right of recall, BWTFDIK.
Pokerships... "honeymoon of "hope" lol - hilarious... Results rolling in today/tomorrow are clearly demonstrating the vast majority have finally realised they've been sold a 'cesspit of turd' by Boris/Truss/Sunak - bout time they gave them a boot as their economic record and record on everything else is dreadful.
Savage
I think Sunak and Hunt are just going to run out of time in terms of delivering what they would hope to achieve....but..in terms of the electorate , it isnt go to be an awful lot easier with, say Starmer , in terms of the cash available to spend against budgets etc ....
You just create this honeymoon of "hope" against the notion that the external factors which any Prime Minister is fighting against ...ease up
BT will be a good defensive play
If there is "carnage" and "turbulance" ..then personally I do not see any defensive plays in Telecoms ...myself ..
There wont be strong buyers but there will be sellers , with any buyers only wanting to buy... cheaper ...IMO
Why would you buy and keep prices stronger with carnage and turbulence around you ??
I also dont see Sunak and Hunt working against the money markets ..they wont stand a chance and they already know that...and those two know the money markets anyway
IMO
Pokerchips - You're not accounting for the Tories digging in until the absolute bitter end and the utter carnage that's going to cause. BoE can only do so much and every day the rot and damage grows ever greater. BT will be a good defensive play imo but it'll suffer from turbulence no doubt.
" Brokers use our shares to lend them to short traders, but apparently it is possible to request your broker stop doing it, and to recall any shares already used for that purpose from our account "
I suspect you need to read the small print in your contract with your broker in terms of whether they actually do lend out and whether you can actually do anything in terms of changing their stand point ... having an account normally means that you agree to whatever their position is on the matter !!
shorting helps liquidity
Savage
I see a BOE hold and mixed views on a potential rate cut date , from the minutes .... nothing beyond what the markets have already assessed .....
Needs the next inflation data to show pressure easing on inflation, which then eases pressure on wage demands
Bailey seems to suggest from recent comments that he is expecting a CPI drop in the April figure released later in the month
For me.... it is the wage demands that the BoE is keeping a firm eye on .... there seems to be where the battle lies ... I guess if folks see more money in their pockets from other areas then the wage increase pressure should ease
IMO
Brokers use our shares to lend them to short traders, but apparently it is possible to request your broker stop doing it, and to recall any shares already used for that purpose from our account
"so..in effect shorting is creating more long positions than there are shares outstanding ..if you have 100% short , you actually have 200% long ...the original owners and the new buyers of short sold shares ...hence creating the pressure build up for a potential short squeeze"
Pokerchips, thanks for your reply. So can you please explain why the share price drops due to shorting, if indeed you are correct with the above?
I'm pretty confident the RNS showed MS lending the shares for shorting action and I expect us to see more shorting action next week around the BoE rate announcement on Thurs and release of the minutes and comments by MPC members into the following week too. Get your buys in wherever you see value though as imo BT stock is going to do very well this summer ahead and into autumn too!
" Can the same share be shorted more than once? "
Yes, ...but..you have to remember that...you only establish a short seller by first finding a long buyer who is willing to buy the shares sold by the short seller , which then create the trade
so..in effect short selling is creating more long players ..not less ( original long owners and now new long buyers)
In reality the higher the % short, the more the number of long players ...because you need buyers to sell the borrowed shares to
so..in effect shorting is creating more long positions than there are shares outstanding ..if you have 100% short , you actually have 200% long ...the original owners and the new buyers of short sold shares ...hence creating the pressure build up for a potential short squeeze
I don't know much about shorting shares, I've never doe this. So I Googled the following question....
Can the same share be shorted more than once?
Yes, a share can be lent and shorted more than once: If a short-seller borrows shares from one brokerage and sells to another brokerage, the second brokerage could then lend those shares to another short-seller. This results in the same shares counted twice as "shares sold short."
" In short they have loaned out shares to shorters."
IDoMyBest
I read it that MS only have a measly 136,790 shares 0.001375%
As such it is MS that has borrowed 865,062 shares and the owners of those shares have rights to recall them from MS .. I saw it that they cant lend out more shares than they actually have Voter Rights Attached
I cant say but maybe MS borrowed them and sold them to bring down the SP to then buy Options at lower price ??