Member Info for ToffAppleton1

Bluedreamer

Deutsche bank are one of the chief culprits for stock manipulation. They’re an ill reputed outfit that have been found guilty of countless financial crimes.
Only today they dropped BT’s share price target from 175 to 165. I ask you - how can a company what makes £7.4 billion profit be valued at £15 billion?

The bank itself is in dire straits and is desperate for money, and amazing despite all their criminal convictions are still allowed to act as market makers in UK markets. It hardly inspires confidence when you’ve got a pack of m************kers like that valuing UK equities and issuing bizarre price targets.

No doubt they’ll be in the dock again for market manipulation soon. On the bright side, the bank is in such dire straits it could easily go bust.

I just want to make a few things clear about my posts
When I talk about volumes, I’m talking about shares traded not buy and sell trades. For example if the days volume is 20 million, there could be 12 million buys and 8 million sells, so when I post buy and sell numbers I’m posting them on volumes traded not buy and sell trades.

Inexperienced investors always jump to the conclusion that shares must be being shorted if the share price falls - and it’s that what’s driving the share price down.

As with a lot of shares that plunge Centrica is NOT being heavily shorted. The share price is determined by the market makers. Just like any market, they set up their stall and assign the price.
On the subject of shorts, shorting is the most difficult bet on the market. Heavily shorted shares are red herrings to traders and a goldmine to market makers. Ocado, Wetherspoon , two of the most heavily shorted shares are also the market’s best performing shares - why?

Because once again it’s the market makers who set the price, if the share is heavily shorted they ruthlessly pump up the price and wipe millions of shorting bets out. You should never short a company unless it’s going bust or you will get gang raped by the market makers.

Who are the market makers?

Market makers are banks and brokerages, the have markets over a barrel because without them there’d be no market, that’s why they can manipulate shares with impunity. Because of the connection between market makers and brokerages, they work hand in glove with each other to determine share-prices; the broker manipulates shares by issuing price targets that benefit their position on a share. Because of the broker/MM relationship, it doesn’t matter if there’s an imbalance between buys and sells because the brokerage absorbs any excess shares,which they will buy or sell at a opportune moment
The dynamics have changed over the past several years. Before for a share to plunge below savage bear market valuations, it would take three or four profit warnings, huge losses, write-downs, and dividend cancellation. But regarding Centrica, although all those events have been priced into the shareprice, they haven’t happened. The market never used to work like this, these days the SP is just a manipulative number, irrespective of all else.

I know Centrica has its issues but the valuation bears no resemblance whatsoever to its intrinsic value. An unsubstantiated rumor alone is enough to send the share price down 7-8 percent in a day, and that happened several times with a potential dividend cut, then when the cut finally came it fell 19 percent in a day. So that dividend cut has been priced in about 7 or 8 times. Of course, the market makers grab any opportunity to hammer the share price down, because their employers (brokers) have short- term short positions open which they close when the market makers mark the SP down. Then there’s a slight bounce from short covering and the whole cycle st

This is the email to report market fraud. I advise everyone here to send them an email and demand and explanation why market makers can mark a share down 19 percent in a day when there are 2.5 buys for each sell; as they did on the 31 July.

Centrica is subjected to the worst kind of insider trading imaginable and something needs to be done about it.

whistle@fca.org.uk

If there’s one thing I’ve learnt about brokers price targets over 17 years of trading it’s this:

Share prices don’t follow broker targets, brokers follow share-prices.

When a share falls, to make themselves look smart brokers slap a price target which is almost always about the current value. And then the ones with lower price targets lower their targets to below the current SP.

For example a broker that’s also a market maker for Centrica, who is shorting the share, slapped a 70p target on when Centrica was 100p. I’m fully expecting that same broker will slap a 50p target on, so his market maker (who works for him) can hammer it down to 50p and make the broker millions.

Last time I looked there were about 8.5 million buys today and 5.5 million sells, and yet again the MMs have marked it down.

This is infinitely worse than insider trading, what we have here are market makers marking the price down every single day, no matter what, so their employers (brokers) can make money. If ever there was a financial crime it’s happening now at Centrica. The market needs to shift to a form of artificial trading based on volumes of sells and buys, and not allow shares to be valued by the whim of market makers You’ll never have a level playing field in markets until you eradicate thieving human scum.
And I’m case anyone wondered market makers collude with each other to drive share prices up and down, which is yet another crime inflicted on genuine investors.

Bluedreamer

Do some research on Glencore. The market makers did the same to that company a few years ago as they’re doing to Centrica today. They brought Gkencore down to its knees even though it was financially sound. It lost 80 percent of its value in a short span of time, while the market makers priced it to fail and their brokerages waxes rich shorting it.

The problem is when these douchebags mark a company’s shareprice down for no good reason, the market capital/debt ration becomes alarming. For example not so long ago Centrica was worth £10 billion now its worth £4 billion, but even though the debt has stayed the same, it has risen 250 percent in relation to market capital value.

Glencore issued a public statement condemning the market makers for their inability to value stocks fairly and threatened to relocate to a developed nation’s market where these practices are highly illegal. It’s all on the internet if you do the research.

Just for the record take a look at BT
Another company that’s been beaten to death by the market makers. At a 20 year low, down from £5 to £1.80, even thought nothing’s changed, except their profits are about 3 times higher than 20 years ago. Since then they acquired EE for £12 billion

The entire company is now valued at £16 billion by our market makers which means BT is worth £4 billion.

Profits for the past year were £7.4 billion. Several years ago you’d have needed 3 or 4 profit warnings, huge writedowns multimillion pound losses and the abolition of the dividend to take the shareprice down to today’s level (none of which have happened) today all you need are bent brokers dreaming up imaginary news and that’s enough to trash the value. For example they kept predicting dividend cuts and each time the share fell by 15 pence. They did that ten times and it fell by 150p so the prospect of a dividend cut was priced in ten times over. The government know about it but are terrified to do anything about it because it would do irreparable damage to the financial sectors reputation

And we’re only shareholders so it’s okay for us to be defecated over by criminal manipulating market makers and their brokers.

Poker chips

So you think TC is going to survive?
I’ve seen companies like that in markets on so many occasions and they always fail.
But let’s keave it there for now, and I’ll come back and remind you again when they do go bust and shareholders get wiped out.

Another Market Maker trick is to mark a shareprice up aggressively when a company is going bust. They did it with Debenhams, sometimes it’s rise 25 percent in a day days and weeks before it went bust. This sends out false signals that it’s on recovery mode and draws inexperienced traders in. But we all know the end result.

The same is happening with Thomas Cooke now. Mark my words it will be suspended in the near future. Up 50 percent on the week, down about 25 percent today. Remember out of the bent timber of humanity, nothing straight can ever be made; and timber doesn’t come any more rotten than market makers. Watch Thomas Cookes shareprice for the next week or two and then you’ll know what I mean.

Also take this on board. The dynamics of the UK stock market have changed over the past several years. The fact that numerous shares are trading lower than in the most brutal near market in history should speak volumes of the criminal manipulation. And I bet you at least 95 percent of people on these boards who have been trading for a year or more are in negative territory.

Bluedreamer

Who do you sell them to?
Market makers are brokerages, so technically you’re selling them to yourself. The divide is in name only, if you do some research on market makers you’ll see they are mostly brokerages.

And therein lies another poison - brokerages will lower price target for shares they themselves are market makers for, to justify driving the price down.

No stamp duty is payable either - they get round this by opening a CFD position, so avoid paying the duty.

As I said before and I published the exact numbers, on July 31st Centrica fell 19 percent on the day even though there were approximately 2.4 buys for each sell. Inexperienced retail investors have this illusion that the price goes down because it’s being heavily sold, but it’s just not true. The share could have 5 buys for every sell and the market maker can still mark it down so his brokerage can make money shorting it.

By the way, trading a winning short is the toughest bet in the market, be sure if you do short that the company you’re shorting is going bust or the market makers will rape you. Ocado for example, used to be the most heavily shorted share on the market when it was £2 and all the market makers had to do was continually mark it UP to £14 plus while making tens of millions off shorters on the way up. It’s so easy when you can pick a number and any surplus shares are mopped up by the market makers brokerages and bought or sold for a profit. Like I said I’ve got nothing against shorting, but when market makers are shorting the shares they trade it is nothing short of theft.

Bluedreamer

Companies that are heavily shorted are usually some of the best performing ones. Once again if a share is being shorted the market makers exploit the shortest by raising the price, wiping the shorters out and pocketing their money. It’s when a stock is lightly shorted that traders can make money.

My complaint isn’t against shorters which I have no issue with, it’s about it’s the market makers who use their brokerages to short the shares they are responsible for trading. It beggars belief it’s allowed to happen because anywhere else in the world it would be a very serious crime, punishable for decades in prison.

I’ll elucidate what the brokers and market makers are going to Centrica. Just say I’m the MM and you’re the brokerage, which are one and the same. We arrange between us to sell X amount of Centrica shares, which you hold overnight, and the following day I, the market maker mark them down two pence to ensure you can close the short at a profit. Short covering bumps the price up, and then the cycle of broker/MM fraud begins all over again.

That is what is driving the share price down, not the management. Any other scandal such as Libor, rate fixing etc pales in comparison to this crime. And I’m sure one day the scandal will break and it’ll be on panorama and the criminals concerned will get massive fines and prison sentences. As shareholders we need to made the FCA aware of this overt criminal activity, if enough people complain they will investigate

As I said before, the UK stock market is like going to a casino where the house can see your cards and then choose cards to their liking to ensure they win, but in this case it’s a market maker picking a number so his brokerage can make a huge profit at our expense.

It’s a pity we live in a country that affords no protection to traders/investors. This could never happen in any other developed nation.

People who don’t know any better blame Centrica’s share price plunge on the management, where as the truth is the market makers have put it where it is today.

On the last trading update, there were 23, 242,000 buys versus 9,452,000 sells. Logic would dictate the shareprice should rise, but it FELL 19 percent that day.

How could that be you ask?

Well it works like this.
Irrespective of fundamentals, the market makers pick their desired number. Market makers are attached to brokers, so there’s a conflict of interest.
The market makers brokers mop up excess shares and short them. When the market opens the MMs Mark it down a couple of pence, this is the signal for their brokerages to close their shorts, hence the mid morning spike, because the brokers are buying the shares to close their shorts. Then the viscous spiral begins all over again and what you end up with is a never ending downward spiral while the market makers and their brokers work hand in glove to make tens of millions by cheating genuine investors out of similar amounts.

I can’t see how this can be legal, it would never be tolerated in any other developed nation, but the authorities turn a blind eye to it here, and this criminal manipulation has worsened considerable over the past few years. Your shares are trading gar lower than they were in 2008 when one of the most savage bear markets in history gripped the market. Your loss is their gain. Forget technical trading, forget fundamentals, the market makers choose the numbers. What they do is on par with a casino which are allowed to chose their own cards so they always win.

This will be the next big scandal to break, I’ve contacted the FCA today and registered a formal complaint outlining my concerns and enclosed a body of evidence to support my claim, included multiple screenshots when buys outnumbered sells by 2 or 3 to 1 and the shareprice still got hammered down by the market makers.

What they do is extremely unethical because it comes at the expense of thousands of jobs, lost livelihoods and intimately the destruction of British companies. I advise everyone on this board to follow my example and report this criminal activity to the FCA who have already told me they’re going to investigate.

Britain has some great companies, it’s just a pity they are listed in a stock market that doesn’t value them fairly. If any of our great companies were listed in other indexes, their values would soar. People buy in based on their value, but however low you buy, the market makers conspire to drive them lower, so everyone loses.

Dan "Sorry Gerry, but how can you post on a share chat line , if you have no opinion??" Retail investors opinions count for absolutely nothing, including my own. I would never try to force an opinion on someone else. There's a surefire tendency for bias if someone holds shares in a company to rate them as a buy, even though they may well deeply regret buying shares in that company. From what I've seen on these boards the more trouble a company's in, the more shareholders try and rope others in. Bit like a drowning man.

Nims "what would you pay to own the company?" I don't know but I paid 207p each for 5000 shares and I'm happy with that. I wasn't expecting much in the way of SP gains but it works out about 5.5 percent dividend which is better than the 0.25 percent you'd get at the bank. I'm a Vodafone customer too so I'm partial :)

Gerry "Or is it only manipulated downward" No the SP is manipulated up too. Morrisons today sells 11,812,086 buys 5,019,546 shareprice up 2.8p Same old story yesterday The market makers are running a corner on that stock; squeezing shorters. Broker rating 1 buy 8 holds 9 sells Irrespective of broker opinion it's just about the best performing stock in the index. Outperforming the index by far. Average TP about 190p. Actual SP 247p P/E 26 compared with 12 for sainsburys Or are you green enough to believe stocks trade on logic?

Char "nice rise today. any ideas as to why. " No idea but there must be a reason. Buys outnumber sells 3 tob1 also. That happens when retail investors are the only ones selling and institutional traders are buying. The market knows something. The clues are in the share-price.

Char "one person on other site said vod sp will fall 50 p or more like bt if results are poor." I wouldn't pay too much attention to posters who pick numbers at random. Maybe whoever said that thinks BT and Vodafone are the same company. Anonymous clowns are never a good foundation for an investment. It's my belief that voda has fallen in sympathy with BT, as sectors do. Sentiment is against telecoms right now so even if voda exceed market expectations tomorrow I don't expect much upwards movement.

Picket Jeffries cut the TP to 225 today (from 265) that's probably what's sent it down. I'm no fan of bozo brokers personally. I tend to find they follow the direction of the SP with their TP to make themselves look like crystal ball gazers, using hindsight. And why issue a rating now? Why not wait until the results are out in 2 days? Jeffries still have a buy rating on the stock.

Fred "In the meantime technology changed, TETRA radios became 1990s technology" As is so often the case with technology companies when their product is dated, they drown in the technological tide. I've no doubt this one will follow the path of so many other dinosaurs and trade at a fraction of a penny, until it is mercifully culled. Definitely not one for widows or orphans.

Sepura attracts gamblers not investors; it's a casino share. By that I mean it's the type of share you can lose everything on. It's year high is £1.81, to the uniniatiated it looks cheap at 19p. You could have made the same argument at £1 and I'm sure many people did and pressed the buy button. They've now lost over 80 percent of their money. One thing I do recommend before buying into this dog, is for potential buyers to check the messages on this board from 6 months, 12 months ago and then ask themselves how it worked out for those who bought in? Because it's highly probable it'll end the same way for you.

Jio's aggressive assault on the market forced Vodafone to take a $5 billion writedown on Vodafone India last year, prompting Chief Executive Vitorio Colao to say at the time that the market would have to consolidate. "I think consolidation is the answer," he said. "You cannot defy the rules of economics." According to analysts at Berenberg, a combined Vodafone-Idea group would have around 375 million subscribers and around a 36 percent market share, well ahead of Bharti with around 260 million subscribers. Vodafone also said on Monday that a deal with Idea would not include Vodafone's 42 percent stake in Indus Towers, the radio masts owner created by Bharti, Vodafone and Idea.