Member Info for ToffAppleton1

Trent

“And what do you think will happen to Centrica shareholders when this clown Corbyn re-nationalises “

I expect it to double in value. The ftse has risen about 3 percent since 1999 while the Dow has almost tripled and the Dax has doubled.

It got a lot worse since the 2008 financial crisis, before that MMs could only slap savage bear market valuations on companies in dire straits.

Like I said uk markets are set up to financially rape investors and line the pockets of criminals.

Nationalization will be like a takeover and fair value (about double what it is now) will be realized by investors. As I said in previous posts there are laws to protect companies from “lowball” valuations

The same certainly can’t be said for the scum that value our companies on the markets.

Not only that, absurdly low valuations risk losing great British companies to hostile overseas takeovers. GKN for example being a case in point - bought by asset strippers and vulture funds for peanuts. 52 percent voted for the takeover @250p. It’s now quoted at 482p off market.

As a novice trader who doesn’t know the dynamics of markets you should take those two numbers as the difference be real value and uk market value.

World

“Fact remains everyone and his dog is avoiding buying this share with a barge pole
otherwise the price would rise wouldn't it?”

I don’t mean to be impertinent, but why do novice traders always assume a share price has fallen because of heavy selling. I’ve seen Centrica fall ten percent in a day when there have been three buys for every sell.

Irrespective of buys and sells the price is determined by the whim of MM scum. Nothing Else Matters.
What happens to the excess shares you may ask?

All MMs have a broker arm attached which are used to absorb the surplus, they manipulate the price so their broker arms can make a killing at a future date.

So there you have it - that’s how markets really work. In truth UK markets are a morass of deception and insider trading.

Would you go in a casino that was allowed to choose its own cards and pick its own roulette numbers, so it could never lose?

Because that’s what you’re doing trading the ftse.

Hopefully Corbyn will win the election and annihilate these horrible parasites that are raping uk investors. We live in a country where the deck is stacked in favor of billionaires and cheats, and if you want uk stock markets to stagnate for another 20 years and for human scum to grow richer, you know which way to vote - and what you’re voting for. The Uk need a generation of hardcore socialism to eradicate the scum who own our country lock stock and barrel.

Skier

There’s a set of laws in place to protect shareholders from nationalization. The government cannot lowball investors. Investors have to be paid realistic value. Which would be about double what it is today.

While the Dow has risen from 10,000 to 27,000 the FtSe has risen from 6900 to 7300 in the past 20 years.

That tells me that the market makers scum who value are stocks and provide trading liquidity are far worse than any form of nationalization.

Part of a fairer society would be removing the human scum who predate over the U.K. stock market. If Corbyn does win the election expect the ftse to rapidly rise to 10,000 and nationalized companies to double in market value.

Or do you want more of the same. Trump, Johnson and shareholders getting financially raped by their ilk?

Centrica was upgraded by two brokers today.

Morgan Stanley upgrades to Equal weight
Raises prices target from 70 to 80p
Jeffries raises target price from 90 to 100p

As I write volumes shows 2 buys for each sell.

I’ve reported the market makers who are responsible for trading Centrica to the FCA three times. This time I’m going to report them to

https://reporting.actionfraud.police.uk/

Market makers who use their own brokers to short shares they are responsible for trading are engaged in criminal activity. It’s insider trading of the worst kind. I’ve said it before, what they are doing is exactly the same as if a casino were able to chose their own cards and numbers.

I know the FCA have be in contact with the thieves responsible and for a while it went quiet. But a wolf will always go back to the same watering hole once it’s found one. Market makers have been raping this company for too long to feed their greed. Watch this space - theft like this should be punishable by multimillion pound fines and twenty tear jail sentences. It’s a scandal waiting to explode.

BT is valued by a pack of clueless market makers who value the company to benefit their brokerage arms. Don’t forget this is the era of MM impunity, where totally unqualified people slap ridiculous valuations on companies.
How do I arrive at that conclusion?
Well for a start bt paid about £12 billion for EE, which means that the MMS value bt at about £6.5 billion, based on its market capital value of £18.5 billion.
The best thing what could happen to bt shareholders is for this company to be taken away from the corrupt clutches of the market.
I estimate part nationalization will be worth upwards of£3 a share. Remember it’s only open reach that is being nationalized the rest of the business will still be a private enterprise. Including the £12 billion EE mobile company.
With the government compensatory payout, shareholders will be in a far better place than they are today. Nationalization would be on par with a take over and the premium would be there to benefit shareholders.
And wouldn’t nationalization be a price we’ll worth paying to get rid of the most extremist right wing government is British history?
Be careful what you wish for. You might think you’re a Tory but think again, if they rule over you you’ll be worse off. Billionaires will get massive tax cuts but ordinary middle class people with be impoverished by their Trump policies. The wealth will be redistributed from the poor to the rich.

Faultsman

Of course, every wannabe city worker that has My First Abacus on there Christmas list would expect that.

“Their Christmas list”

Toff

Share valuations are valued on the whim of market makers, nothing else matters. You could have ten buys for each sell and they’d still mark it down so their brokerage arms can profit.

Vol. Sold 10,097,800
Sold Value £20m
Vol. Bought 25,922,766
Bought Value £50m

Faultsman

It’s attitudes like yours that makes any market abuse seem perfectly acceptable, even deserved.

You have to question those responsible for trading BT. Remember this is a company that lost £6 billion of its market value in a single day, because of a £500 million accounting scandal.

The difference with share prices now and pre-financial crisis (2008) is that shares no longer need Armageddon to be beaten into the ground. Market makers can choose any number they want, to allow their broker arms can make money on their positions.

Do you really think all of BTs woes aren’t priced into the share price yet?

The answer is that they’re priced in 3 or 4 times over.

The point of my post wasn’t conspiratorial, it was factual. Of course I expected BT to fall on the news

I also expected Vodafone to rise by equal measure.

But with no protection from the law, that didn’t happen.
Also, check the buys and sells volumes out for each company, on this board at market close. In these lawless days of insider trading a share can have 3 buys for each sell and still be marked down ten percent by market makers. In any other industry that would be a Crime. I’ve worked in the city, I know what goes on, and it’s far worse now than when I was there.

Toff

Vodafone have won virgin mobile off BT
BT down 5 percent on the news
Vodafone up 0.5 percent on the news

That’s those market makers waxing rich again. It must be great to place a trade and adjust the number accordingly

The thing is

It effects both companies EQUALLY but for one it is positive and for the other negative

So mister market maker marks one down ten times more than he marks the other one up

It’s as bent as any Thai political election . Maybe even worse.

And you can bet they’ll mark BT down another 5 percent tomorrow and cash in on their shorts
Amazes me how the people who set the share price can use their broker arms to profit from the share price direction. It’s like walking into a casino and being allowed to pick your own cards. Their behavior is far worse than any other financial scandal in history and they’re allowed to operate with impunity at the expense of honest people.

But what do politicians care about this type of theft. We’re gamblers right, so if we lose we’ve only ourselves to blame.

The irony is if the gambling industry operated in the same way, the ringleaders would be jailed for twenty years.

There’s something very wrong with the share price action of this share. It goes EC- dividend tomorrow but the MMs are hammering the price down today. They’re looking to drive it down to 60p as early as tomorrow so their brokerage arms can make fortunes on their shorts.

No news today. Two recent upgrades to strong buy. More buys than sells.

And the market makers are marking it down. How can you have the people in control of the shareprice shorting it at the same time???

Heard from the FCA yesterday who sent me the reply below. Surely they know it’s not a level playing field when the MMs can pick a number so that their brokerages and clients can make money out of our. That is price fixing of the worst kind, much worse than libor rate fixing. The FCA need to remove the scum, decimate their companies with hundreds of millions in fines and imprison the culprits for decades as well as stripping them of all their assets, down to their clothing.

“Thank you for coming back to us with additional information regarding your concerns about the share trading in Centrica and possible collusion in the market.

What I have done with your information

Further to my previous correspondence, I have shared the information you provided with my colleagues in our Market Abuse Team. Please note that I won’t be able to provide you with any feedback on how we have followed up the information you have given us. I appreciate this can be frustrating, this is because of our policy on confidentiality restrictions. We may, however, contact you if we need further information. “

With regard to my recent correspondence concerning Centrica’s unusual share price action.

Maybe I’m missing something, but on the face of it, it looks like Centrica’s shareprice is being manipulated by the market makers responsible for trading it. What I can’t understand is that when there’s 3 or 4 buys for each sell, why the market makers mark the shareprice down aggressively.

Over Wednesday and Thursday this week it was marked down 7-8 percent although the buys vastly exceeded sells.

What I’m suggesting is that the market makers are colluding to drive the shareprice down to profit, and their brokers are complicit in the fraud.

Tell me something - is the shareprice solely dependent on what the market maker wants it to be? Because that’s what it looks like to me.

If stocks are valued by a cartel of market makers irrespective of every other consideration, then that is the same as going to a casino where the house is allowed to pick their own cards and numbers so they never lose.

It’s not just Centrica. I’ve traded stocks for many years, but over the past few years there’s been some marked changes in the way stocks are valued.

Before you needed a bear market and loads of bad news to drive down a shareprice to what I regard as a savage bear market valuation. That’s not so these days. Market makers can pick any number they like, and one they undoubtedly profit the most from.

Maybe there is another explanation for this but I can’t think what it could be. Please find enclosed screenshots to support my claim (buy and sell volumes for Wednesday & Thursday.

Also, another issue I’ve noticed are broker upgrades and downgrades regarding Centrica

In the past when there’s been a broker downgrade, Centrica has fallen 7-8 percent in a day. Just recently there’s been a couple of broker upgrades to strong buy, which had virtually no effect on the movement of the shareprice. This suggests that the brokerages attached to the market makers are working hand in glove to manipulate the shareprice down.

I think a good idea to stop this fraudulent activity would be to rotate market makers who trade stocks, so they don’t have a permanent presence. Permanence presents them with opportunities to form cartels and determine shareprices.

Share trading is quite obviously not a level playing field. The institutions that run it, run a crooked house. If the same happened in casinos and horse tracks it would be a criminal offense but in share trading it appears to be an accepted practice.

Best regards

Here’s an update on the response from the issue I raised between market makers and their brokerage arms....
___________________________

Thanks for your email of 9th August, that was passed to me from our Whistle blowing team as best placed to respond to you.

i understand your concern is the potential for fraud between market makers and their brokerage arms, because there’s a conflict of interests when a brokerage who sets price targets and sell/ buy recommendations for companies, are also responsible for trading the shares.

Specifically, you say you're referring to when the share price of Centrica fell 19 percent on July 31st, when there were 2.5 buys for every sell and you'd like us to explain why this was the case.

As you're a shareholder with this company I can appreciate the worry and concern this may be causing you and am grateful to you for taking the time to let us know about your concerns.

What I've done with the information

Preventing, detecting and punishing market abuse is a high priority for us. One of our objectives as the financial services regulator is to ensure that the markets work efficiently and with integrity. One way we do this is by monitoring the markets and taking action on activities such as market abuse and breaches of the market conduct rules.

The information you've provided is helpful to us in monitoring the markets and has been shared with my colleagues in the Market Abuse team for their consideration. I hope you will understand that it is often not possible for us to tell people about the outcome of any action we may have taken in response to the information they have provided to us. This is because much of the work we do with firms is covered by legal and policy restrictions on what we can disclose, but the information we receive from individuals is valuable to us nonetheless, so if you are in a position to share anything further with us which indicates additional potential market abuse, we would welcome you doing so.

As I mentioned on this board I’ve been in contact with the FCA about what I consider as trading irregularities concerning Centrica. For example the share price fell 19 percent on July 31st even though there were 2.5 buys for each sell (volume not trades)

The suspicion is market makers are using their brokerages to manipulate the SP to their advantage, which would amount to insider trading (the worst kind)

I received this response from the FCA this morning and I’ve spoken to them on the phone about my concerns. They do share my concerns and believe the MMs have a case to answer to and have forwarded my complaint to the relevant authority. Below is their reply.

Dear Anthony,



Thank you for contacting the Whistleblowing Team and for your further response below.

We have reviewed your email and determined that your enquiry does not fall within the remit of the FCA Whistleblowing Team. We are in place primarily to receive and manage disclosures of employees / ex-employees of firms within the regulated sector. If we receive information that does not represent this we will refer ownership to the relevant area of the FCA that is resourced and trained to handle the matters in question.

This information would be best placed with our Consumer Queries Team at first instance and I have forwarded your email to the team for further investigation. Please contact the team directly if you would like an update or with any further information regarding this matter.

consumer.queries@fca.org.uk
Telephone: 0800 111 6768

Kind Regards,

Kirsty

Kirsty Torode-Sims
Administrator/Whistleblowing Team

Strategy, Policy, International & Intelligence

Enforcement and Market Oversight Division

Financial Conduct Authority

Poker chips

All depends on which metrics you’re using to value a company

I think you’re overlooking that BT own EE mobile

And if memory serves they paid about £12 billion for it.

So with a market capital value of about £16 billion, BT is worth a paltry £4 billion once you take EE out of the equation. At valuations like that it’s little wonder some of the nation’s most valuable companies become targets for asset strippers and vulture funds, like GKN, Unilever and Astra Zeneca. Unfortunately we lost GKN to asset strippers. These things happen when you live in a country where financial markets can’t value stocks fairly, for reasons of which we are all aware.

A takeover bid is the only factor that immunized companies from market maker scum and crooked brokers.

It’s a really pity we don’t have a yellow jacket movement to stand up against ugly corporations, like they do in France, because if they did I’d be there and there’s no prizes for guessing who I’d be hunting down.

Another aspect to watch out for with the market makers is that they always close Centrica out at the day’s low. 66.46 was today’s low for example and the MMs closed it at that price after the market closed

They do this every single day, not just today.

Trades - 3,701
Vol. Sold 4,833,057
Sold Value £3m
Vol. Bought 28,537,837
Bought Value £19m

Reason for Today’s Fall

Bent market makers...

Poker chips

Whichever way you want to slice it BT share price makes a mockery of fair valuations.

It all started with a £500 million accounting scandal in Italy. BT lost £6 billion in one day. That’s 12 times more than the accounting loss.

In our bent and twisted market bad news is factored into the shareprice ten times over

Not only news, but rumors too. Rumors are treated as fact by market makers. Just the other week BT fell 15p on the rumor of a dividend cut. That’s a whole year’s dividend on a rumor. And the same will happen again. And if a dividend cut does eventually happy the share won’t fall 15p it’ll fall 45p.

And all the time market makers and their brokerage arms will be waxing rich out of investors misery.

This is a scandal that will break sooner or later, it’s the most disgusting version of insider trading in existence.

The problem lies in the very foundation of the UK market system. If the truth were to come out the ftse would collapse overnight. So theft is tolerated in exchange for liquidity and providing a market.

There is not a single market in the world that operated like this, not even a third world one.

Being born in Britain is an unfortunate event. You get defecated on in every aspect of life. And with a hard brexit about to happen the country will plunge into the abyss and there will be civil unrest.

BT used to be £5 - and very little has changed since except a rise in profits and a two thirds loss in the share price

But there will always be those who find things to justify the fall, but what they forget is that those things have already been priced in multiple times.

It’s never a good thing for business when governments get involved

The politicization of shares began in the financial crisis when the government virtually nationalized them. The problem lies in using private limited companies as popularity vehicles, as the government did for years after the financial crisis, by making them pay fines and endless compensation to customers, all at the shareholders expense, not their own. It amounts to a form
Of vote- buying

Having seen the advantages of politicizing companies the politicians put a cap of utility companies. Free popularity at shareholders expense yet again

But look at the wider picture - thousands of jobs lost, millions in taxes lost. And Centrica for example has to spend hundreds of millions on infrastructure and gas exploration to maintain developed worlds standards. It’s not as simple as selling gas and pocketing a profit, the company has to invest fortunes to maintain the services. It provides.

Same again with the gambling industry - politicized. - William Hill hundreds of store closures - thousands of jobs lost.

Political interference in the private sector may help them win elections but the human cost is devastating.

I have never known such a shower of s••• to populate the House of Commons in my lifetime. We live in an era when decent, moderate politicians are marginalized and the parties on both sides of the house are dominated by extremists.

When market makers and brokers collude to drive a shareprice down it creates a really serious problem for the company’s debt. It’s known as the debt/equity ratio. Before the hyenas ripped this stock to shreds, the debt wasn’t an issue but now the market capital has dropped below £4 billion the debt ratio has risen alarmingly. Market makers and brokers might make untold millions out of manipulating a company’s shareprice but they also do untold damage, so much so the company can be made bankrupt, as what happened to Glencore a few years ago. A perfectly healthy company that nearly went under because the market makers hammered the shareprice down 80 percent and left it with more debt than equity.

The FCA needs to sharpen its teeth, because when market makers and brokers work hand in hand to destroy a company’s shareprice they also risk destroying the business and the jobs and livelihoods of tens of thousands of people. And all because they can sail around the Med in luxury yachts with hookers on board.

I can’t see how market makers are allowed to mark shares down so their brokers can make millions on the share price movement. It really is like going into a casino where the house is allowed to chose its own cards, eliminating any element of chance.

The only protection you’ll ever get in the UK market is when shares get hammered down so much that a takeover bid comes in from bottom feeders, as with what happened to Unilever and Astra Zeneca. When that happens the hyena pack backs away and their share prices soar to fair value.

Bluedreamer

Open this link and read it. It’s explains a dark side of the market that investors never see. Inside information from a market maker who explains the manipulative way in which MMs operate; including shorting the shares they are trading it’s quite a long article, and you’ll need to read it 3 or 4 times to absorb it, but it’s priceless information

https://tickerjunkie.com/market-maker-speaks-ways-market-maker/