Member Info for ToffAppleton1

I worked alongside market makers for over a decade and I can tell you, they do not know how to value companies; all they care about are volumes, so they can collect their spread.

Since the financial crisis there’s be a disturbing pattern of companies being beaten down by MMs. Until the past 6-7 years you couldn’t give a company like BT Centrica Glencore & countless others ludicrous valuations. There would have been too many questions asked - they’d have never have got away with it.

They can’t fix LIBOR , interest rates etc anymore so the vultures are looking for other targets to shaft.

I mean the MMs just couldn’t resist marketing BT down again even tho there were more buys than sells.

14,400,807
Sold Value £23m
Vol. Bought 15,215,028
Bought Value £25m

What we have here is a handful of very highly unskilled reprobates pricing a share to suit themselves - and that is a dangerous situation to have in markets.

Shareholders and their companies are at the mercy of this rabble of dubious individuals, who can pick any number they want.

As I said before, the market needs fully automated trades with prices determined on volumes and buy/sell ratios. What we have now is MM abuse. what is happening now is another scandal waiting to break.

As I’ve said before. It’s like going to a casino where the house can pick their own cards to maximise their profits.

Toff.

Aus

‘Apart from the obvious dangers of creating a community that only agrees with you’

Not so much as agree or disagree - rather having nothing of any substance or relevance to add. Apart from telling us BT has gone down - like we hadn’t noticed.

Or wild guesses - with ad hoc price targets - which you’d expect from a share in a long term downtrend. If they’re so confident they should short it and disclose their positions to give themselves a modicum of credibility.

I just think it’s a waste of time reading these type of posts - and an either bigger waste of time replying to them.

Toff

Regarding Avro

Every board has its spoilers who add nothing constructive and offer no insight. Everything revolves around hindsight with Avro and her ilk, and as we know hindsight is no good to anyone.

Nothing what Avro claims passes scrutiny; it’s pure fantasy. So why give her the time of day - why not just ignore her and turn off the attention she so desperately craves.

Toff

Fleccy

“as we all know, Avrohom and lamtree's main aim is to encourage people to unload their BT investment”

Maybe - but anyone basing whether to buy or sell based on what that pair spout has no business trading shares anyway.

Toff

Avro

“I have just bought a share called Fevertree purely as a result of a intuitive feeling.”

OMFG - Fevertree. - you have bought a share in a downtrend. A former market maker darling which was ludicrously overvalued.

A tonic water maker - once valued at £5.5 billion (more than Sainsbury & Morrisons) by clueless MMs. until reality visited in their last trading update.

Toff

Avro

“My FTSE 100 shares have risen 13% last year.”

Which ftse 100 shares? I’d be most interested to know. Because if you’re up 13 percent in a month on the PERMABEAR 100 - you have performed a miracle

Toff

Avro

“I came to the conclusion by looking at the recent third quarter results
Revenue. EBIDTA and cash flow were all down. And to top it all debt has rose substantially and is showing no chance of slowing.”

You’re supposed to do the research and reach a conclusion BEFORE you buy in.

Not buy in first and then do the research and reach a conclusion.

Take this on board when taking the plunge next time

Toff

Avro

You claim to have a £350,000 portfolio and a £3500 position in BT?
That’s only one percent of your holdings.

What I can’t understand is why you’re so nettled by a relatively tiny paper loss on your BT flutter. I’d expect someone with such a wide exposure to stocks to take a small loss in his stride.

The problem with stocks is that unlike cars, clothes etc. Nobody wants them when they plunge in value.
So if you’re that cut up about your BT position why not cash out?

Your other stocks must be taking a beating too, because the ftse 100 has been the most awful investment over the past 20 years. A savings account would have paid better with none of the stress and costs.

You do not buy ftse 100 shares for capital gain
You buy them for the dividends and hope they retain their value - which they rarely do.

Toff

Avro

“BT is a long term buying opportunity" Everyone was saying 5 years ago that BT was a lonf term buying opportunity. “

I didn’t say it 5 years ago when they were £5. I said it today. When they were £1.62

Toff

# Trades 28,666
Vol. Sold 26,571,430
Sold Value £43m
Vol. Bought 52,620,167
Bought Value £85m

Only in the UK could that happen
Other markets have regulation against it
Even third- world ones.

Toff.

Well & Truly shafted by the UK PLC.

Poker

Why is it that people think that when a share drops, it’s because of heavy selling?

And why is it that they think there has to be one sell for every buy?

Both of those assumptions are wrong.

Do you know what market makers are?

They’re banks and brokerages. And they work hand in glove with each other to determine shareprices. Excess buys and sells are mopped up by their brokerage arms.

Forget volumes, fundamentals, TA etc
The shareprice is what the market maker wants it to be - nothing else matters. They value stocks at what they believe they should be.

Toff

Bobett

“will look to buy at 129.”

I doubt it - First of all I doubt even UK market makers would dare to mark the share down that low. That would be like begging an overseas company to buy it and dealing the uk ecomoony a grievous blow.

And I doubt you’d buy if in the unlikely scenario it did fall to 129. Because if it did your buy target would become 110p and then be adjusted lower as infinitum. I hear that kind of talk off novices every day.

The thing about novices is that they always believe they’re going to jump in on the bottom. Novices look for certainty in an uncertain world. They believe they can time tops and bottoms. Which of course they can’t and they end up missing out.

As a short term trade BT is a nightmare, but there’re very few stocks in our “permabear” market that are good short term trades.

BT is a long term buying opportunity. I mean buys outnumbered the sells today last time I looked and the market makers marked it down another 7 percent.

They did the same with Centrica a few months ago. Marked it down on results day by 20 percent, even tho there were 2 buys for every sell.

As long as MMs have the power to pick any number to their liking, the uk market will remain a morass of undervalued insanity.

Toff

Williams

– Deutsche Bank plunged to a bigger than expected loss of 5.7 billion euros ($6.3 billion) last year, its fifth in a row, as the cost of its latest turnaround attempt hit earnings.

Misconduct scandals, a failed attempt to take on Wall Street heavyweights and, more recently, an aborted merger with Commerzbank mean Germany's biggest bank is still in recovery mode more than a decade on from the global financial crisis.

DB came in well short of market expectations. They lost a staggering €5.7 billion. Their fifth straight year of multi billion losses. their shareprice ROSE 4.5 percent on the news

BT came in short of expectations by 0.7 percent. They made nearly £2 billion profit. Their shareprice FELL 6.5 percent on the news

That should tell you how warped and twisted markets are. And I’d bet you there will be more buys than sells for BT today and more sells than buys for DB.

That’s the market makers pricing the shares to their liking and using their brokerages to mop up the excess.

Toff

Vélo

“and 4% drop in core earnings to 1.98 billion pounds, but said it remained on track for the year. "

The market expected core earnings of £1.995 billion.

So BT missed expectations by a fraction.

But enough for hyena market makers to pummel the shareprice. Only need the narrowest of misses for this to happen if sentiment is against a share.

Toff

Avro

Have you tried making a cash withdrawal from that ‘demo’ account you trade from yet?

Did it work?

Toff

Avro

The differences are too plentiful to put on a single post, but even you must know ones a bank and the others a telecom?

And the German bank has a huge fine hanging over it from the financial crisis for miss-selling and numerous other questionable practices.
The American authorities will demand payment of up to €10 billion, and that will wipe DB out

And one of these companies makes profits of over £2 billion per annum while the other racks up eye-watering losses year and year. I’ll leave you to guess which

Toff

C3

Self fulfilling prophecy

Absolutely. A scenario we see all too often in broker/share targets. But why anyone pays any attention to deutsche bank, I’ll never know

DB is a busted business model - a burnt out shell of its former self

And that’s reflected in its shareprice.

Valued at roughly $17 billion dollars
The same amount Apple made in the last three months. (Profits)

My tip is DB won’t survive without state aid. They make loss after loss after loss. And you can only do that for so long

Toff

Current broker ratings for deutsche bank

Buys - 0
Hold - 10
Sell- 9
Strong Sell -5

Toff

Deutsche Bank have just cut BT target price from 169 to 157. That should be a screaming buy signal for anyone normal; given their track record.

They must have advised an army of clients to short BT, and yesterday’s small rise set off alarm bells.

DB is a clapped out shell of its former self, it made all the wrong calls leading up to the financial crisis

And it’s made all the wrong calls since

Deutsche Bank - currently valued at a paltry £14 billion
Down from £80 billion pre- financial crisis

They really know what they’re doing.

Toff

Lamtree

‘Its all been down hill from there for BT and theres further more to come’

Your crystal ball’s not working, BT is going uphill.

The problem with making uninformed predictions is that when you get them wrong you lose all credibility.

Toff