Member Info for maestro1

Rebel put a link up awhile ago where it showed an video by Meg Kinnear of Icsid which stated how arbiters are selected. Basically parties are given a sheet of arbiters and they can select more than one, if they select more than one then icsid chooses. This issue with regards to Albert Jan Van Berg has been raised previously but we dont know the answer to it why chl and its old legal team selected this guy. Maybe chl ticked two or three arbiters and icsid chose him, thats the conclusion i am taking. Add that to the fact that he was an arbiter along with the other two in another indonesian case that concluded in 2009 doesnt bode well. We can raise all these conspiracies but will they do anything about this? Just cant believe how an arbiter can do this, btw he is part of the so called "elite 15 arbiters".

uncanny This is a snippet from kpk corruption report which is out in the public. From 2009 to oct 2010 he made around £40k, a regent gets nowhere near that amount in a third world country thats a fact. Probably £3k-£4k per annum. HE comes from a very poor background and £40k is a huge amount for him at the time. He also rents/owns a private jet! Had the police reports and Kpk corruption report been provided to tribunal this would surely have cast a doubt on the tribunals conclusion, considering Noor refused to come for cross examination. I have to say there is more to this case, we found a asset and we want just compensation.

Although often buffeted by a variety of sensations, Isran there is not a rich-very rich. In a report to the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK), Isran already three times mentioned State Officials Wealth Report (LHKPN). First, in September 2005 when the man born Sangkulirang 57 years ago it was an assistant II Sekkab Kutim. At that time, a total wealth of USD 672.89 million. Four years later, when the first period as regent, Isran convey LHKPN with wealth rose by Rp 340.22 million or Rp 1.02 billion. A third report at the end of the first period in October 2010 before she came back to the regents and elected. The second and third reports of the intervening year, property Isran to Rp 1.79 billion, jumped to Rp 772.4 million http://www.linezagroup.com/dianggap-ingkari-sumpah-hanya-rp-179-miliar-harta-isran-dinilai-tak-wajar/ So Isran Noor was mentioned 3 times in the kpk report, the interesting one that may relate to us, from 2009 to Oct 2010 his wealth increased by 772.4 million rupiahs, this is same period our licenses were taken away. Coincidence? Noor cones from humble background, regent in Indonesia doesn't get paid much! Now you know why he didn't attend tribunal and why roi didn't provide kpk report to tribunal. Would have put too much doubt in roi's narrative. This is out in the public domain, so one can speculate it shouldn't be difficult for chl to obtain report...

Fregatr It all depends what evidence chl has? Wait for them to submit application, we may get a detailed rns like the finals result rns in which CHL gave their full side of the story. In the Final results rns, DQ said roi requested some info to stay confidential and whatever they use in the award you will know what part was relevant and confident at the time. Putra allegations were one of the allegations in which Roi wanted to be confidential at the time. Why? Im saying wait, roi narrative can easily crumble.

darrenbiggs the question isnt whether Police is corrupt or not, heck the regency is littered with corruption most of the officials are/have been investigated by kpk corruption unit. I keep repeating this, read the award, the arbiters are convinced that Putra assisted Ridlatama in the award, what evidence was it that made their mind? Why didnt the provide the police report to tribunal? Police have alot more fact and alot more testimonies, they cant find a suspect. Putra should be in jail for a very very long time if he was part of this fraud and you follow icsid narrative. Yet he is a free man! Why?

Orbiter If this award gets annulled, chl will most likely win. Using Forestry breaches for taking away licenses will not stick. Ridlatams did not chop down any trees, it was the local community who wanted to build church. This was confirmed to Roi by the local community. If this gets annulled, IMHO chl will win whether ooc settlement or winning the quantum phase.. Forgery case is roi's last resort... There are many grounds to get this award annulled chl ONLY need one.

Hopefully, chl will destroy the conclusion of this award? Ridlatama have been cleared by the police, all others who were questioned have also been cleared. It doesn't matter if its criminal or civil case icsid conclusion is totally offguard. Roi put those allegations of their own official Putra committing fraud to icsid. This can't be the case, where is Putra currently? Is he in jail? I don't think so...

jamess carry on!! Where is Putra? Without him fraud was not possible if you follow roi narrative Noor, why didnt he attend hearing? Why is KPK investigating Noor, according to KpK report Noor wealth increased considerably after licenses were taken away from us, coincidence? Why did tribunal use inadmissable evidence? Forgery dismissal application, Roi were the claimant and Chl were the respondent, why diod they claim the opposite? why such basic mistake, Roi did not prove prima facie case This will get annulled, unless.......

Orbiter For a start Roi told chl and tribunal to keep allegations against Putra confidential. Too much holes in this conclusion, its like tribunal made a decision and then decided on the reasons. Icsid is becoming an international tool....

shoestring12 The tribunal didnt have the police report, so they couldnt use any facts from it. Roi have essentially pointed the finger at their own official, the tribunal have agreed. If this is the case the police should have punished him, what i do know is i dont see any articles where it states Putra has been arrested or charged in this massive fraud. If i was CHL i would request the police reports or file a report against Putra, maybe then Putra will talk and the cracks will be evident for all.

Shoestrings Hypothetical question, what if the police have cleared all suspects and the police file gets officially closed. Do you think icsid will still maintain their awful decision? I'm surprised Ridlatama and Putra are not in jail if the evidence is so damning...

Notice who signed the award first, it was Hwang, one can speculate that he wrote the award.

jaf we are in a hole, no doubt, really disappointed with this verdict, if you look at the icsid website almost all applications for annulments are made just near the 4 months deadline. We have just under 2 months to submit, dont you think the best action will be to get the best possibles grounds and investigation. Dont worry about the finance for the appeal as one expects it shouldnt cost no where near the forgery case. Lets hold on and wait for what the company says, i think there is alot more to this then meets the eye. imho

reputable

Jaf They do if they want to keep Icsid an impartial, refutable organisation. Yes considering two of the three arbiters are members of the elite 15 arbiters in the world it will be difficult to get this overturned but not impossible. It depends how much pressure they get by other individuals. Its not over!!!

Jaf You have to remember the licenses were taken away from us for forestry breaches, the forgery was another excuse on technicality issues. The tribunal made their verdict on the documents which were provided, had the police docs been provided they wouldn't have been able to come to this conclusion, as far as I'm aware I think Ridlatama have been cleared by the police, see how contradictive that is. Chl need to get those police docs and if they do, tribunal can not keep this verdict. If they still want to maintain Ridlatama and Putra committed fraud, roi still owe us as their official was involved thus they should be liable. Had he not registered those licenses we never would have had any and never spent $70m on the licenses. If they still want to go down that route...

James's They used his statements in the award, they can't make an excuse, the 3 new arbiters assigned will need to decide if that was right or wrong. They will have to annull the award just on this point. Also one has to take into acc an police investigation has failed to charged any party yet the tribunal were happy to make speculative guilty verdict with limited one sided facts. Ask yourself, how is this fair? The new tribunal will realise the mistakes.. Imho

I think what will be key here if the police clear everyone of forgery, i heard all suspects were cleared and had their passports returned, if this is the case the tribunal have been negligent and their speculative finger pointing will be thrown out of the award... Can CHL get hold of Police docs? :-)

Chl got no warning letter, just forged complaint letter sent by local community leader for breaking forestry rules, Noor cancelled them without any warnings. Just to be cleared the local community leader denied ever sending that letter in court, someone forged that letter too. So who are the forgers, certainly not chl..

rebel please explain..