Member Info for machiismo

As I've repeatedly said, you tiring person, a large portion of the Brexit vote was clearly motivated by xenophobia.

I'm repeating myself now, but it's been well documented that immigration was a deciding factor in the Brexit vote for a majority of voters. And yes I believe that is rooted in xenophobia and racism, because it definitely isn't rooted in economics.

I stand by my statement 100%. My question is why you are so quick to defend bigots?

Cool, I'll add I'm gazzleberry to the list of things I am according to you Tories:

Liberal leftie
Woke capitalists (still don't know what that means)
Communist
Socialist
Labour supporter
Non-Lloyds shareholder
Commenter of "no standing" (lol)

Anything else? Maybe now you've got it out your system you can actually debate on topics at hand?

Oh god the morons really are out in force this morning aren't they?

You know you can discuss something without it meaning you don't accept it? Have you seen riots in the streets? No? Then people have accepted it.

Gate13

Calling a bigot a bigot isn't namecalling, it's merely a description.

Calling someone that disagrees with your Tory right-wing crap a "communist", "leftie liberal", "woke capitalists" (whatever that means) etc. is not the same. And tbh I've been mainly criticizing TFE for his "you have no standing" nonsense.

As I've said repeatedly, if you want to debate with actual facts I'm more than happy to do so, but all you lot seem to do is dance from one argument to the next. First it's the confidence vote, then it's Brexit, now it's the Scottish referendum and Labour anti-Semitism reports!?

Is it possible for you to actually answer any questions without jumping to another entirely predictable topic, where you again continue to have no answers?

SNP voters want to be part of the EU because most Scottish folk identify as European. Because we are. We have a lot in common with our Scandi and Nordic cousins in particular. A lot of us don't want to be in the UK because we have been governed by a Tory party for over a decade when we haven't voted Tory in over half a century. A lot of people also however see the economic benefits of being in the UK. Much like how being in the single European market was a benefit.

Regardless of which side of the independence referendum you fall down on, the fact that you seem to think someone has something wrong with them because they don't identify as British is nationalistic crap. You know what I'd say to someone that identified as British over Scottish? I'd say fair play, cause it's really none of my business and I'm not so insecure in my own nationalism that I need everyone to follow suit.

I'm not a Labour supporter, but nice whataboutism anyway...

Most people would just say "I don't defend xenophobes and r@cists", but for some reason you guys seem unable to do that..

The "nerve" to ask someone a bunch of questions of which he hasn't answered any?

Here's another question, why do Tories always defend xenophobes and bigots?

Gate13Boy

Genuinely don't think you know what the word hypocracy means...

Anyway, you can easily prove you aren't xenophobic by having non-xenophobic views. It's fairly easy to convince someone you aren't something by simply not being it.

If you aren't a bigot then you really have nothing to worry about, do you? Although it's very odd you keep defending the people I've called xenophobic and r@cist.

You'd think someone like you, that is clearly not either of those things, would be on my side on the issue. After all, being xenophobic and r@cist is pretty terrible, isn't it?

Maybe you two don't understand political ideology in the slightest?

It seems anyone that disagrees with you is somehow a communist. Try as you might, calling someone something doesn't make it so.

I hate to break it to you, but there is more than two political viewpoints. It's not just conservatism and everything else.

"mashiimo won't commit to any particular political party or leanings. In fact he wouldn't even admit to being a Lloyds shareholder"

Okay now this is just getting sad in the extreme. Why would I be on here if I wasn't a Lloyds shareholder? Why does me being a shareholder or not have ANY bearing on anything I've said? And how is any of that your f*cking business?

And even if I WASN'T a shareholder I could simply lie about it and you've never be able to prove otherwise. So it's a completely pointless and completely stupid statement from a profoundly stupid person.

Also as I've said, I don't have "allegiance" to a particular party, because I'm an adult that realizes there are no perfect solutions to life's problems. My political views are largely clear (otherwise you wouldn't be attacking me), but again, I don't see how it is any of your f*cking business. You don't see me asking for your "leanings" because unlike you I can infer someone's nasty, petty political viewpoints from the nasty, petty comments they make.

TFE

Who you made you emperor? "You have no standing here" LOL, it was pathetic the first time you said and it's even worse that the passing of time hasn't allowed you to reflect on just how cringeworthy you're being.

It's a public board, we all get a say and you don't get to make the rules. If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you, perhaps some alt-right forum for snowflakes will take you in instead?

I've said repeatedly most Tories on this board have zero ideology, it's purely just supporting a team to them and skiers fanatical, blinkered posts tonight tell you all you need to know about the complete lack of nuance and political comprehension on display.

skier1 are you trolling or genuinely that thick?

You can't compare the general election result to a vote of confidence result and say it represents anything.

That incredibly stupid statement aside, this result is awful for him. His result was worse than Theresa May's vote of no confidence (which was called "a terrible result" by Reese Mogg btw) which saw her booted out 8 months later.

If you actually had any interest in the party you claim to follow, you'd realize that BJ is ruining your chances at holding onto power. And no amount of inane, delusional posts about percentages will change that.

Join the rest of us in the real world please.

Everyone predicted Boris would win this vote, it was no surprise. What was surprising was the sheer scale of revolt in the party.

40% of his own party have no confidence in him, and a large portion of his supporters are stuck to the sinking ship. Now if 40% of his own party have no confidence, imagine the numbers in the rest of the country.

The Tories are going to get wiped out at the next general election.

Also f*cking LOL at skier1 using a logarithmic scale to predict election results bwahaha. Hilarious.

And just to be clear, I say it's those immigration beliefs are based in xenophobia because government studies ALL show that migrants contribute more money to the UK than they take out. Immigration is a net positive, always has been. So putting aside the actual morality of deporting people to Africa, which I don't particularly agree with either, from a purely economic standpoint we shot ourselves in the foot.

So when people that voted Brexit like to claim it's about immigration reform or whatever, I want to know exactly how they think that will benefit this country? Because we are worse off now without the vast EU workforce we had working the jobs we didn't want and we still can't control our borders anyway because we're a f*cking island. So pick your poison, either the number one reason for Brexit was bigotry towards migrants or it was completely incorrect economic beliefs. Either way, Brexit voters got it wrong.

If you don't think the Brexit vote was largely driven by xenophobia then you are utterly deluded. The driving factor for most voters was control of immigration - that is a fact and was well documented ahead of the vote.

Control of immigration is at its core a fear based in xenophobia and r@cism. You're utterly naive to think otherwise.

"You have no standing on this BB regarding anything political"

Who the hell are you to tell me what I can and can't say? If you can't handle a reasonable debate, then grow a pair or p*ss off. It seems all you can do is obfuscate and namecall whenever anyone disagrees with you instead of engaging in an honest conversation.

I suppose you dont see the contradiction of saying "your own opinions" and "allegiance to a party" in the exact same sentence, but let me be clear about it:

Unlike you, I actually have opinions and they are generally informed by facts, data and ethics. Not selfish desires, fear or bigotry. I don't have an "allegiance" to any party precisely because I think with my own head instead of blindly following what I am told.

Politics isnt a game you know, its not one team versus another. Its real life with real consequences (although i understand that "consequences" is a concept foreign to most Tories) and as such is more nuanced than "allegiance". You use the language of fascism and you dont even realize it...or maybe you know exactly what you are doing.

hardup

Prove me wrong. I happily await any of the Tories on this board to actually respond with anything other than lies and strawman arguments.

The tory party and Boris got we out of the EU, they got us through the pandemic, they have supported ukrane,they have given money to help us through cost of living, they have given more money for nhs, unemployment lowest for years.You can only do all this be having a strong economy. To say they can not manage is is to deny the the evidence in front of you."

This is deluded in the extreme. Your first three points are literally just governing, and they spaffed billions of public money away during the pandemic, are renaging unilaterally on their own Brexit agreement, have an NHS that is crippling under load and hugely underfunded (being privatized by stealth), with record numbers of GPs and nurses quitting, and we have record employment because a huge number of our workforce left due to Brexit. Small and big businesses alike can't find staff because we told all non-UK citizens to feck off.

Literally every single point you made is either false or hugely misleading.

hardup

Point proven. Literally all you Tory voters can do is demonize anyone that isn't you. "Communist", "socialist", "woke leftie" bla bla bla - anything to detract from the reality that you have literally nothing to say about anything.