Member Info for Cliostock

The question is a serious one; is it powered by Zenakine, or is it a competitor to Zenakine?

I’ve just had a relisten to the NDA part of the Q&A on the last IMC. SA clearly states that a post launch period of ‘a few months’ is built in to the commercial contract to allow Croda to gauge demand post launch. So that to me gives Croda power over SA until 8th July 2025. He also says that the contact includes quarterly forecasts and as soon as Croda lift the vale of secrecy SA will publish everything he has. Reading between the lines it sounds as though SA is hoping the NDA gets lifted within 1/2 months, not that he has any power to influence this. I think we can be sure Croda has nothing to gain from allowing SA to release anything before they are contractually obliged to let him. So, we are not getting anything before the month of July and I sincerely hope that SA doesn’t let Croda push him over and tell him he is not allowed to release the forecasts.

I can’t show you what you are looking for WIILG, aside from saying to watch the IMC which features the pre recorded video from Cecile Jonchier, she is a Croda paid up person, although I’m not sure what she says. But on the same point, please consider the appointment of Dr. Surinder Chahal. He worked for Croda during the development of the product, and has agreed to join our team. I doubt any amount of money would convince someone to come over to SBTX from Croda and say how special the product is if it wasn’t.

You do totally have a point about the management and their clear-as-coal communication. I think that’s where the opportunity lies. I think we would be at 50p+ now if not for everyone feeling the same uncertainties as you. Risk and reward. We were at a 100m market cap at the point when we thought axis would take us to break even and we would be able to make an own brand skin cream out of Skinbiotix. This company is 10 times that company and we are an half the market cap.

What more can Zenakine do? Both metaphorically and literally. It’s one of the few areas where enough information has been made available. I’d be very surprised if anyone was to make a decision not to be invested based on uncertainties about Zenakine. There may be other alternatives to retinol but ZK is the best available.

Dustbin, here’s a bit of information to dig your teeth into re those percentages. 3/4 years ago, every time SA mentioned that percentage in an RNS or in an interview, he would say ‘premium’ double digit percentage. Now it’s up to us to decide what is premium as it’s totally subjective, but personally I’d say it’s over exaggerating to call anything less than 12% a ‘premium’ double digit. Is 12/13/14% not just a plain double digit percentage? As I say subjective, but if it’s 10.1% I’d certainly have grounds to feel misled.

Net, the recommended % is 3%. No offence intended here although it might sound rude, but if you spent less time posting babble on this board and more time reading basic company information you would know this.

Shychap, exactly right, apply some logic and the task becomes a much smaller one. Ten questions on audio files, perfect example. Well we know how long that takes from the IMC. 16 minutes!

PG, duplications would cut a load of the time as he could use copy and paste, or simply state ‘duplication’. For things already in the public domain, they could be delegated quite easily. The questions that remain could be the insight potential investors need to make their purchase decision. Your post, although valid, is the thought process I’d expect from an 18 year old, looking at why things can’t be done instead of making it happen. SA is 60 and an experienced businessman, there is no way you can convince me the responses to invited questions at the IMC is good enough. More effort required.

I cannot believe SA isn’t greatly alarmed by the fact that there has been over 300 questions which would take him 3 days to answer. I’d be thinking “OH MY GOD my shareholders are really in the dark, no wonder my share price has been massively underperforming. I best do an open source interview or another IMC specifically for a Q&A.”

Not “that is not a productive use of my time”.

Need to keep reminding myself to be patient until the NDA is lifted at the end of the month but my god this ‘bandwidth’ problem is so frustrating.

Very interesting Bel. I was particularly interested in one of the final comments from Peel Hunt about boards having a toolkit to hand including an assessment of fair value. I wonder what our board would value SBTX at?

Lots of UV research been done!

I was very surprised after reading the headline on Substack to see none of the three was SBTX. There can’t be too much better of a tip at the moment; but as Toyin points out the false market/broker forecasts will have anyone who looks at us turn their nose. I can’t wait until that situation changes, and something like a Daily Mail article would put a cherry on top of a good week, I’m absolutely sure. One day soon!

I don’t know much about how the trading side of things works, but I tried to buy £100 worth this morning before I had to leave the house and I couldn’t, so I tried to buy £50 and couldn’t. £20, nope. £5, order rejected 3 times. So I gave up.

Brilliant RNS today. It’s easy to see Stuart is a creator and a builder, and I know from experience when that type of person is stretching to cover the mundane day to day stuff the bandwidth to grow and build can disappear. I think Simon should be a good resolution to that problem and expect to see a new lease of life from Stuart and some forward thinking in all pillars taking place.

Manprit no loss. To be paid that amount for the function in a company with so few transactions which includes a financial controller underneath him, the reporting should have been much quicker and much better.

Onwards and upwards.

Sorry Shychap I don’t think I wrote that particularly clearly. I wasn’t suggesting the same participants repeated in multiple days as it reads. I meant that if you can do 13 participants in one day, and that gives you reliable results, why would you continue tomorrow? Where does it end? Do you do two days and 26 participants or 19 days and 247 participants? Daft maybe but it has to stop somewhere. Croda are the experts, they are finally commercialising our technology, and we are looking at some sales numbers in the next couple of months. I’m happy enough as long as we do see those numbers!

Of course, the more the better - I don’t think anyone would dispute that. But realistically on the day if it were to take a full day to test 13 participants, call them through, explain what’s going on, fit the headgear, take a start point reading, apply the cream, take a second reading, remove the gear, log the results, it’s got to be half an hour a person quite easily. How many days do you repeat it for if you think the results will be proven day 1? I’m not realistically suggesting that the results would be binary as such, but the right side of the scale to say what they need them to say. I just think 13 is enough and some deeper thought has negated my initial disappointment, that’s all.

Shychap, what is interesting is I watched the presentation again earlier and on closer inspected of the slides I was feeling the other way to you, I actually became more comfortable with the group sizes.

The reduction of stress claims were measured by the ‘Well-Being Manifestations Measure Scale’, which is a scale consisting of 25 factors and 6 sub-scales, and there were 44 participants in that.

The sleep improvement claims featured 21 participants, and involved daily application of the product or the placebo for 1 month, and included use of the EMFIT QS Ballistography Sleep evaluation questionnaire, which seems to be used as a sleep evidence collection mechanism in hundreds of scientific papers of all kinds.

The part of the study which only contained 13 participants was where the claim is around relaxation, and this part involves taking measurements using an EEG, an electroencephalogram, which is one of those rugby-looking head devices which measures brain activity. I can only imagine how long the setting up and analysing of this data would take, so if the results are clear after 13 of them, why do 100?

We all know the saying from Einstein about the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. After 13 EEG tests, if 7 product tests showed relaxation and 6 placebo tests showed nil, I’m comfortable with that if Croda are.

Quick research into the methods used show the testing of the participants that were involved was deep and thorough, especially when compared to the opinions gathered to ‘validate’ products currently on the market.

I, like many, would previously have made an assumption that these sorts of studies would use hundreds of participants, however looking at it from the inside out, I now feel my previous point of view was a bit daft. They are trying to prove something that they basically already know from laboratory testing, and the methods used are costly and time consuming. I will no longer be seeing the group sizes as a negative myself, unless anyone can counter anything new?

Net, I believe the difference is in the quality of the study, the 8 out of 10 cars scenario. Zenakine has had clinical studies done for certified outcomes that can be used in marketing claims. No asterisks. Whenever you see any other cosmetics adverts on TV, they seem to have between 40 and 75 participants, and it will generally read something in the small print such as *74% of 49 women agree that Lancôme reduced wrinkles, so the consumer is buying based on the opinion of people that have been given free cosmetics, rather than based on science. My point being that a clinical study will only use as many people as it needs to validate its point because it will be expensive and harder to run. I imagine the 8 out of 10 cats brigade will send out circa 100 samples to participants and collect simple data from however many say they have used the product for the specified time period. The monitoring will be very different.

Bel, I think I’m on the same page as you on this. I have previously done a little exercise of my own to work out what I thought Zenakine would be worth to a buyer, before I may have been swayed by others opinions on the boards. Obviously we don’t have all the information regarding take up, so filling some gaps with guesses based on the available presentations, and looking at the figures of the products Zenakine could be set to take some market share from, my opinion is that if a bid was accepted at any less than £1.29 per share, I would be disappointed.

So Oleric, you don’t think buying a cosmetic cream that you can put on your skin, buy freely, use indefinitely and has cosmetic anti aging benefits far outweighs booking in with your GP, taking an hour out of your day, getting a prescription, going to the pharmacy, then getting a two week supply of a pill that can give you a headache and may make you irritable?

I think Belgrano is spot on. I’m not sure if you read things out of context on purpose or just easily miss the point being made. Of course there is another perspective one could adopt, but it only reflects badly on you when you say it’s ‘nonsense’ after you’ve missed the commercial angle that Belgrano has understood. The pill will definitely put a higher amount of useable melatonin in to your body in one hit - that’s not the only thing up for debate that tips the scales…