The latest Investing Matters Podcast with Jean Roche, Co-Manager of Schroder UK Mid Cap Investment Trust has just been released. Listen here.
Nice to see the old Asperger back apparently over the 'read-as-promised' 'stolen' dividend saga behind you, and now 'expecting' a 'special' div to be paid.
You consider that buybacks are so beneficial to the share price along with increasing the 'sum' of future dividends.
Yet I see the share price falling away, and the dividend PAID to shareholders after the buy-backs LIKELY the SAME sum it was going to be WITH or WITHOUT the buybacks, and the extra syphoned off by the board and HMG.
In banking, especially UK banking, there is always an easy way to find 'good reason' why the accumulated profits can be 'kept back' or used for a multitude of other purposes rather than give such to shareholders thus having that sum drain away from the company.
With the Tories milking us, and Labour stealing the entire udders, can't see much of the extra gained coming our way.
Perhaps the board could allow all those who want buybacks to be given shares electronically to delete, and those of us who would rather have the say where we spend our cash have the sum given onto our div's.
Theaky,
I think I have 'sussed' the reason for so many Tory, 'shoot yourself in the foot 'seemingly' crazy policies' ; they are NOT crazy but part of a larger world stage plan to ensure that the Tories loose the next G.E, so they can sit back, watch Labour trash the economy even worse, then ride to the rescue, BUT telling 'all' the broken, downtrodden unemployed "The only way we can do such is by a renegotiation of the UK/EU 'deal'.
And that 'renegotiation' will VERY MUCH resemble the deal we had when in the EU, for that is what the world, and many MP's and others who DID gain by being in for their own agendas wanted.
And because the UK has to uphold the 'image' of democracy, the ONLY way to get what they wished for, not what the 'plebs' wanted is to ensure that Labour are blamed as they certainly will ruin our economy. Thus the Tory party will have to wait a few years to gain power again, but to them if it means the 'master plan' of the EU can continue, then such is more powerful than mere 'British politics'.
They get what they wanted, and with the image that democracy is upheld, as we won't 'technically' re-join the EU, but the terms will make it as bad as.
Watch and see, as you no doubt will have little choice.
"Less shares = more dividend for me "
Or more profits to be distributed to the top brass, HMG's stealth taxes and for writing off bad loans for the plebs to carry on living their materialistic lives to the full, at the expense of us shareholders, all fully endorsed / encouraged by HMG to keep the UK feeble economy from plunging ever lower.
I 'don't ' wonder which 'one' of the two views it will be, 'everyones gotta learn sometime'. .....Don't they?
...imo to ensure that the Tories loose the next G.E, so they can sit back, watch Labour trash the economy even worse, then ride to the rescue, BUT telling 'all' the broken, downtrodden unemployed "The only way we can do such is by a renegotiation of the UK/EU 'deal'.
And that 'renegotiation' will VERY MUCH resemble the deal we had when in the EU, for that is what the world, and many MP's and others who DID gain by being in for their own agendas wanted.
And because the UK has to uphold the 'image' of democracy, the ONLY way to get what they wished for, not what the 'plebs' wanted is to ensure that Labour are blamed as they certainly will ruin our economy. Thus the Tory party will have to wait a few years to gain power again, but to them if it means the 'master plan' of the EU can continue, then such is more powerful than mere 'British politics'.
They get what they wanted, and with the image that democracy is upheld, as we won't 'technically' re-join the EU, but the terms will make it as bad as.
Watch and see, as you no doubt will have little choice.
Lloyds is incapable of a sustainable rise, bull market or not.
THINK please, just a what price we would be at WITHOUT double digit inflation 'trashing the pound' so making the share price you 'see' in real terms so very much lower in 'worth' than it is when comparing it to 'your average', as years of single digit inflation has to be considered for all long term holders too.
THEN 'think' if capable or not too painful, just how much buybacks have, supposedly 'added' to the otherwise paltry share price, then 'consider' just how 'well' this share has 'added' to your wealth with the dividends competing by a lowly share price and massive inflation.
Of course, always easier NOT to think or delve too deeply, and just listen to the upbeat and stats on Lloyds 'profit' but little use when the profit has the boards needs and wants , then HMG's, and then the shareholders portion divided between a div, less than it was, and the rest 'kept' in house via buybacks, which can only be realised by selling your stock, but the stock declines in value, making such move unattractive for income seekers
Lloyds ALWAYS has an excuse as to why the s.p is so feeble. When low interest rates were here, low margins was the reason, when high interest rates then 'mortgage default, and lack of new mortgages and falling property prices is part of the 'reason'
As the bank is sooo UK based, then now the 'war' in Ukraine is part of the reason.
Truth is just a buffer zone, between the poor and HMG, and the latter uses the bank to ease the burden (thus hope to gain votes) from the 'struggling' impoverished who have to make do with 3 tv's for the state funded family and just two cars and holidays a year now, so need help and support in paying their way to the tiresome already spent loans and mortgages which to them, is less important than the 'next must have, as they have already 'had' the items from the money they now owe, so that becomes a low priority debt.
Certainly placed the largest portion of 'gambling' on the wrong horse, for I bought 3i around the time I bought Lloyds.
Can't even remember what I paid for iii, but less than two pounds I am sure, now closed at £20, so at least a 'ten bagger' and good dividends too.
My ave on Lloyds is still nearer 60p, and years of no div's.
Chalk and cheese, I know, but IF only I had put all my lloyds cash into 3i, and all my 3i cash into Lloyds I would be quite content, well almost.
Don't agree, as 'surely' the profits would be gone if instead of the buyback the cash was paid out as an increased dividend.
Whilst the money instead of paying it out in div's is 're-invested in the business, then technically it has 'added' to the worth of the business, surely 'that' is the whole point, hence it is 'supposed to' increase the share price as the mkt cap rises due to buybacks.
No tax expert, but seems a sly way of of 'giving' to shareholders without costing the company anything as it is all invested back into the co.
A bit like the old mill owners of old, pay the dimbo's in tokens which could only be spent in their businesses.
The poor and dim still getting shafted just electronically instead of a disc of copper.
...due to known dividend re-investment with the delightful brokers making the most from a 'captive buyer' situation, thus a larger fall a day to two after those brokers have bought back at the top for investors?
A day or two will tell, so no need for answers.
..at what 'price' Lloyds shares would be without the 'successful' massive buy backs taking place.
Add to that the years of loss of value from inflation over the years on a stagnant and falling share price (all but for a few brief moments) and any lth not traders will know that it has been a massive mistake to be a holder, yet few seem able to accept or say so.
Blaming a war for a UK invested and based bank is just another way of convincing yourself that without such all would be well. Imo, it wouldn't, as the UK Gov never wanted out of Brexit for it's own personal gains, so will ensure that until a similar arrangement is put back into place wish gives them the perks they held before, then we will be made to pay the price for voting what to them, was the wrong way.
Not 100% sure, but believe that if you don't want your shares borrowed, then all you need to do is put a limit sale of a large amount, so that it never going to be 'triggered' upon your stock, then I 'think' the broker cannot 'lend' them to shorters
Not that it will make any difference as others will do so, but may help some sleep better.
Look though at Lloyds, and BP, hardly shining examples of buy backs lifting the s.p
As the only gain by having a buyback is the money the company 'saves' on dividend payment on each share bought, then a 5% paying share would take the company buying it back around twenty years to 'see' a return on its capital spent.
IF a company can't find better ways of making money, it gives imo a bad impression to the investing world.
Yet IF a company has more dynamic ways of spending its cash on investing the amount of shares in issue won't matter as more will pile in to have a slice of the much larger cake.
Yet the costliest burden on our nation for now, and even more so for the future is seemingly too difficult, or more likely too risky to be 'cured' by the Tories adding to our housing costs and shortages as well as our NHS being over burdened not to mention our benefits system and prisons being overcrowded.
A sorry state of affairs when 'the' card becomes more powerful than a nations and its peoples future.
No wonder Lloyds struggles being a barometer of the UK's future.
IMO we will NEVER see a cent of any money 'owed' to BP. For all the time there is a orphan, a limbless war victim child, or a widow with several hungry mouths to feed in Ukraine then our treacherous BBC will brainwash all, into hating an oil producer but loving a people that 'most' never knew anything about but are now seen as 'the' perfect citizens and 'best buddies'.
So don't count on ever seeing any return on that money imo.
PS, I know lti will tell all we are 'getting' returns of over 10%, but, meanwhile, in the REAL world, we are getting in our hands a div HALF that of inflation, and the buybacks are doing nothing to add to the share price, which as we see is falling away.
Love to see a savings account offering 10% but actually paying five, but promising to add the other five percent onto your holding next year, but then taking a far higher undisclosed sum off your capital. I am sure it would so popular that it is a wonder Mr Nunn hasn't created it for Lloyds.
Re: " Where will this stop?"
Please SEE what is happening here. It amazes me that people on this board can't see the larger picture.
Since the early days of PPI repayments it was clear to me that such was more about 'funding the wider public' aided and abetted by our Gov. to keep the struggling high street tills pinging, WITHOUT for once, it costing HMG anything.
Since then and as the Gov are out of most UK banks as shareholders, it is more beneficial for HMG to, after years of 'bank bashing' then USE banks to keep dropping free money into the publics hands, at the shareholders, NOT the CEO or other top brasses , or HMGs cost.
I have said this many times, that HMG will, with the help of solicitors keep finding new ways to take the profits from the banks to avoid giving much to shareholders, 'just enough' to keep them hanging in there, but to support the great unwashed, which, HMG can no longer afford to do.
Hence I say Lloyds is a 'buffer zone' between HMG and the impoverished masses, and as one new 'claim' ends, another will begin.
We are being used, but, as I said at the time, HMG would not have 'bashed the banks' for nothing.
It was to get public support to then be able to keep milking banks, but it is not those at the top who paid the price but the share holders, and as I said, "The time to worry is when HMG are no longer shareholders, for then, they are not shooting themselves in the foot by bringing in diverse ways of 'giving' our wealth to those who will blow it and keep our feeble economy from being even worse.
The Tories are more like Labour, and hence they haven't a chance in hell of getting in, as the poor won't vote for them, no matter how much they are give, but now, neither will many 'in betweeners' as we have been shafted by these parasites too.
Like I say, likely a ploy to loose the g.e, to then allow Labour to completely ruin it, and then a perfect 'excuse' to re-negotiate a 'new deal' with the EU which will resemble very much the 'pre' leaving arrangement.
WATCH and LEARN
As the never ending reverse Dunkirk flotilla occupants have never arrived bringing a piece of land, nor home to go upon such, and almost all without the wherewithal to purchase such, but ALL will end up in one eventually, then are you surprised at the continuing housing issues and drain on wealth and standard of living for the indigenous.
If you are then I suggest too much BBC brainwashing.
Some issues the UK's populace faces are hard or impossible to 'cure', others though are far more easily remedied without being detrimental to the British people.
Both parties have failed to address such, hence life for all gets ever worse.
Lloyds is a buffer zone between the struggling and HMG, and we pay the price for HMG's follies, that said, the follies imo will be even worse when Labour are in at the next election.
So, another day of holders 'pretending' to be over-the-moon as the buybacks (which were supposed to add value) can buy more at an ever lower price.
A dire lth share, with months of awaiting a divi income more than removed from the value of your holdings in days.
See it for what it is