The latest Investing Matters Podcast with Jean Roche, Co-Manager of Schroder UK Mid Cap Investment Trust has just been released. Listen here.
Whilst on paper it may well ought to be 7p less without the buybacks, in the real world, I truly wonder if it would be.
I understand that less in issue means larger share of profits per share, BUT, as the market decides the share price, the BOARD decides the sum of div allocated to shareholders.
So, as I have said too many times, there is NOTHING to stop the board 'paying out' EXACTLY the same sum to shareholders from the profits, with our without the buybacks, and using the extra profit for their or HMG paymasters wishes.
So with general world, UK sentiment dictating the day to day or hour to hour share price by the market, and the board deciding on the amount of div, then I do doubt that the shareprice would be very much different without buybacks, and IF that 7p had been returned in the form of a dividend(s) over the time period, I would be far more content.
Can't be bothered to disagree for countless posts, not because I am wrong, but it's boring to all otherss and neither of us will 'see' it any different.
So Lloyds share price floundered with low interest rates, and still flounders with high interest rates.
Its share price floundered with low property prices and never grew as property on its books hit new highs.
The buybacks have not lifted our wealth, as the market prices the share, and the whole investing wise world except a few on here sees Lloyds share price as not 'worth' any more, despite billions of buybacks, high interest, high property prices, and MOST telling of all, even double digit inflation making each pound we own worth so much less, have not lifted the share price, making your 'perceived' break even point, seriously lower in 'worth' now, especially if a long term holder.
So traders may consider it a fair play, those who bought in during the 20's can't grumble too loudly, but for most holder IF honest, it is a dire share, and seems always will be.
Now even more so as a 'capital safe' bank account pays more in interest than the div, which seeing how this always struggles to rise on 'better times' but drastically falls on any world scare, hardly makes it attractive to new buyers in such uncertain times.
A massive mistake buying and holding this, and the future looks to be equally fraught with the almost certainty of Labour Gov, more draconian measures for banks 'regardless' of who is 'in', and a swelling population of dirt poor, requiring everything, all paid for by others, with a Gov with no means to do so, but are FULLY aware of companies making profits who, due to past bank bashing, will be fair game in their and the publics eyes to 'raid' for evermore now.
Suff, the buy back 'hoover' has worked so well so far.....hasn't it?
Looks like we need a larger bag.
IF it has 'worked' imagine how low we would be now without such.
With inflation and IF taking such buybacks into account it hardly would then paint Lloyds as a huge success story with a far lower price than it dismally is now.
You all need the truth pointing out now and again, otherwise it tends to be brushed aside.
A long hard Winter of discontent yet to come, so likely the winner will be closer to the bottom than even the middle.
Anyone suggesting Lloyds would STILL be floating around at this level a decade and a half ago would have been laughed off the bb.
But it is where it is, and that is 'with' years, not just current double digit inflation which ought to have increased its share price if 'all else' were the same, so clearly they aren't and so an dire performance and just a buffer zone to fund the feckless to prevent wide scale debt which the Government since allowing in the world, cannot hope to house defaulters on mortgages but know a lot of shareholder who will.
If you are richer after allowing for inflation and your wealth now exceeds what it would have done by just having it in bonds etc, then you timed it well, but for many this has been and will be a decade of massive loss if holding Lloyds, unless buying at the ultra lows.
Was to keep the hopeful hooked.
With likely one of the most small investors, Lloyds know that people can gain a good sum of interest in bank accounts now, without the risk (and almost certainty if investing in Lloyds shares) of having your capital depleted.
So they have to offer the scrapping of a Carrot to keep even these hopeful on the hook.
Unsure what NC thought but I guessed they would raise the div by a paltry sum, it is the other dreamers YOU need to correct who assume specials, and figures breaking the 1p intrim.
The .92 is already wiped out by the drop, and when the US comes online likely much lower drop too.
I know you have done well, I know you have millions so more a game than important, but many others aren't in that position so have a better grip on reality, and don't need, or , are unable to view everything the puppet does to please the master with rose tints on.
People in the real world feel concerned, as to them it is not just another 'play thing'
...should banks raise interest by 15% on savers accounts, yet scalp multiples of that from their capital each year, so, IF they ever needed to spend their account savings they had far less than when the started, despite leaving the interest to accrue, and when inflation is factored in, even less 'worth' than the disgusting sum really was 'worth'.
What a fool believes, must be a male thing, can't ever admit they made a huge mistake.
Chips, think you on track re Gov et al wanting the UK to fail so as to force a 'new deal' with the EU as the Tories deliberately lose the next election, knowing full well Labour will send us in the IMF or similar hands, and then a vote of no confidence will be held, with the Tories proclaiming the ONLY way out of the mess is to negotiate a 'new deal' with the EU, which won't actually mean 're-joining' BUT will resemble it in most every way but saying so.
The world never wanted us out, and so the above is the ONLY way to keep the EU dream going YET keep the 'image' of democracy in the UK alive, and to prevent others leaving is to make an example out of us, all aided and abetted by our own 'loyal' politicians.
Yet as for Lloyds, it is imo, just a buffer zone between the howling mob of 'allegedly poor' and HMG, and as HMG can no longer 'fund' the feckless, spongers, new arrivals to keep them spending, HMG luckily know, after years of public 'bank bashing' a large bank or more than can, and will.
So imo, another disappointment for Lloyds share price, as the puppet CEO's will dance to No.10's tune not the shareholders forever more.
Factor in inflation factor in buybacks, and SEE who miserably lowly this share price really is if a lth.
Dreamers and dealers may be happy with it, along with those who can't accept they ever do wrong, but genuine holders are mega disappointed or mega deluded imo.
Still people are happier listening to what they 'want' to hear, so the truth is unwelcome here I know.
Have said for ever that once HMG out was the time to 'worry' for then HMG can keep imposing draconian stealth taxes, charges and rules on 'so called' privatised banks to use them as a 'buffer zone' to fund the public and soon to 'house them too' as HMG can't afford to do so, but know a lot of naive shareholders who inadvertently will.
Hence years of 'bank bashing' encouraged by HMG to soften up the public to demonise banks to then have HMG 'milk' them forever to fund a squandering public to keep the high street tills pinging to support the businesses which support HMG.
Wait till landlord Lloyds are in full swing then watch 'rent caps' come into force, again taking profits from share holders, NOT the Ceo.
Perhaps the US are planning to get out of a recession or a depression by escalating the war in Ukraine to hope it can become a European only battle ground.
Then they, as last time, keep their country intact, are floating on oil, have the world's food bowl to feed their nation, and by no coincidence have the most valuable businesses in the world.
So to then sell military equipment, energy and food to those able to pay for such even 'on tick' for the next 50 years or more must seem mighty tempting to 'end' their debt and ensure they stay top dog for a lot longer.
Re the comment :
"Oh i see Ken Dodds come back to life"
Did he?
No, Doddy!
Just a little mirth as we grow poorer each day whilst awaiting our slow degradation from the enemy within, or a more rapid strike for 'helping' our best buddies that 'few' had even heard of, and even less cared for pre Putins invasion.
A shipment of white flags would have been kinder the them, and less costly to us, as they can never win this war, unless they drag the rest of Europe into such, and with the US in fiscal difficulty, not so unlikely a scenario imo, for they were the only ones to 'come out' richer than they went in last time, so why not third time lucky as well?
Whatever, Lloyds is still what is always has been, just a buffer zone to be used by this and the next Gov, to fund the wasters to keep the high street till's pinging, albeit slower, but at OUR expense, not the CEO's or boards, or Governments.
So no matter how much of the company is 'bought back' that doesn't mean we will 'see' any of the supposed 'extra profits' come our way, but to the boards 'needs' then HMG's funding the feckless and new arrivals which they can't afford to do, then give a pittance back, but lower sum than the share will drop as Labour with even greater 'giveaways' is unlocking No.10 very soon.
Surely IF the purpose of interest rates rises is to MAKE people feel the squeeze, then what is the POINT of having them if you then 'help out' those your are allegedly trying to remove spending 'power from'
OR, is it as I suggest they want those 'with' to fund those without, Hence the 'Levelling Down' term I used.
Or is it more a case of 'levelling down'?
As it is usually hard working households who gather the wherewithal to buy a home that will be the ones hit the hardest due to interest rate rises, yet all the spongers both recent and those already embedded into society have the Government pay ALL or most of their rent anyway.
So they are the least affected by interest rate rises, and they also have all or most of their council tax paid too, so the only things 'essential' they have to pay out more on, like heating and eating, the Gov have helped them with by paying them more than all other groups, and gave them extra benefits too.
Their children get free meals at school even when the schools are on holiday, their health and dentistry is paid for by HMG or 'us' as is uniforms and transport to school.
Many pretend to be single parents yet rarely sleep alone, and too many earn money undeclared to have an excellent income with very little essential costs of life.
All rented property is maintained by others, so no need to save and all or most of the week off to do as they please.
No small wonder the UK has a 'magnetic' draw to vinyl .
So the Tories are forcing their voters to vote elsewhere or not at all, as they are not looking after their core voters ONLY the very wealthy, and there is NOT enough of them to get them in, and whilst they tried to 'buy' the great unwashed, they will never vote for Tories or likely 'bover' to vote at all, despite never have 'had it so good' it is us they pay the price for the Tories either deliberate choosing to loose the election or they are dim, and I don't think that they are hence former posts.
We are doomed by deception to suffer for making the right, but not their, or the worlds 'choice' imo
Surely inflation should be 'self-cancelling' for as prices rise, and 'assuming' personal wealth does not increase at the same or above levels, then people buy less.
So HMG acting like a Labour Gov and giving the masses more money for food, more for energy, free rent and council tax, free school meals, free school transport, free dentistry and prescriptions and overly generous universal credit, or tax credits of thousands a week, but with even more freebies as stated, they have MORE disposable income to squander thus the masses of 'supposed families in poverty are actually doing better than ok; yet the 'squeakiest wheel, gets the most oil' and boy they know how to squeak.
I know these people and many of you wealthy will only believe what the BBC and ilk tell you. So don't expect much support on here, just worth letting those with a more open mind realise how many play the system still.
I believe that one of the main reasons many UK citizens voted out was their preference that they would rather be 'poor but happy, rather than being enriched, but miserable.'
Perhaps as HMG knew that was a main concern for many of the public, that is 'why' HMG, if my theory is correct, that they, the Tories want to loose the next election. For they have done nothing to prevent or return the daily increase in costly arrivals, thus 'again' trying to persuade the 'leave voters' who voted for less arrivals, that their vote was in vain, to then at a later date when re-elected gain what they really wanted free movement restored after Labour have trashed our economy and a vote of not confidence removes them a few years down the line.
Don't underestimate the level of corruption on all levels.
Told you, ALL part of the lager plan to get the UK back into the EU 'fold' by ensuring that we pay the worst possible price for leaving. So much so that the Tories will ensure they loose the GE to then get Labour to fully trash the economy, so the Tories can create a 'new deal' with the EU, which the broken battered public will 'then readily accept'
That new 'deal' will likely very much resemble the 'pre leave' arrangement' in all but 'actually re-joining'
British politics is nothing compared with what the 'World' wanted and most MPs etc never wanted us to leave for their own agendas. So the ONLY way to overturn the plebs 'choice' and keep democracy alive is to ensure the failed 'project fear' occurs.
"i am yet to fathom why the sp is not rising givevn the benefit we get from higher rates."
Lloyds shares always have a reason to either drop or stagnate then drop.
When interest rates were low 'that' is why the share price was low as thin margins to make money
When interest rates rise, then a risk of more defaults on loans and mortgages, and the price of houses likely to fall, meaning all the mortgaged properties on Lloyds books is worth less too.
The interest rates are 'put up' to remove cash from society to curb inflation by LESS public spending money, and that in turn will mean businesses will fail, and try selling commercial property in a down turn, NOT like a house where you can easily rent it, AND costly to insure and protect from vandals etc.
But the big concern will be that fewer will take up new mortgages, and thus less growth for Lloyds, more defaults, lower property prices on its books, and likely more stealth taxes from its profits to fund the soon to see growing numbers of unemployed as businesses fail as people are too hard up to 'waste' cash on things other than the necessary things in life.
So ALWAYS bad news for Lloyds whether interest rates low, (low margins) or high, (more defaults, less new business, lower property prices)
And a current Gov not afraid to milk the 'cash cow' and a certain future one ready to do a 'Mastectomy' on the company, with masses of growing poor arriving daily, a Government really 'against' leaving the EU but forced to do so to keep democracy alive, so only way to have similar arrangement in the future is to allow in Labour to trash the economy then the 'new Tories' ride to the rescue and have a 'new EU deal' resembling the old one in every way but in actually 're-joining'
You have a lot to learn I feel, as instead of thinking what YOU want, think what YOU would do, IF you were a Government dealing with a forced hand against your wishes.
Hard up,
Issue is, only when 'our' boards decisions coincide with what we the fractional owners wish for is our 'desire' met.
That is not very often.
Still the large shareholders likely have some 'sway' but a trifling sum held by all of us combined wouldn't count for much.
Lets hope 'us' owners don't get nationalised when Labour ruin the economy fully for 'then' it will become clear to you just 'what' you actually own.
Still I guess any of our descendants could then buy it back when re-nationalised by a future Tory Gov.
Asperger not saying Lloyds couldn't 'afford' to pay out what your surmise. My questioning is why would they ever pay more than they the very minimum that they can 'justify'.
I am sure many bosses 'could' pay more wages, but again would usually pay just enough to retain loyal staff, and keep any extra gains for themselves.
Hence not so sure about the 'special' as now more than ever, always plenty of 'news' to use as an excuse to keep the lid on the filled 'jam pot' for 'another time', by which time, some new banking, or UK or world 'event' will happen to prevent shareholders from ever seeing anything more than the basic imo.
Happy to be proven wrong, and, as yet still unhappy after a decade and a half of dissapointment.
With Labour highly like to hold the No 10 keys can see this could be 'the good times'.