The latest Investing Matters Podcast episode featuring financial educator and author Jared Dillian has been released. Listen here.
Re "but it's pretty low-level stuff "
But it ISN'T low level. Whilst the BBC et al love to highlight 'high level' swindlers, the cost to the country is far far greater when the masses of this country and now the world, float in to claim benefits or swindle and use the system to better their lot in life at the cost of those working full time to fund them all.
When those claiming were a lower number, the economy could cope, but now with an endless number with shame now gone, and to declare yourself in poverty acceptable more and more are jumping on the bandwagon and ironically because if you work only 20hrs a week you get your rent and council tax fully or almost so paid, you then get thousands a year in universal credits to replace the old working tax credit and child tax credit, you don't need to pay for dental care, nor prescriptions, they get extra help with food, and energy costs, free school uniforms, and transportation costs to school, and have HALF the week off to work cash in hand, sell dope or just have a pleasant life.
Problem is they won't work more hours as their benefits and rent etc are cut pound for pound, so HMG then allow in more imms to fill the jobs shortage, BUT they need a home, education, healthcare and earn little so are a negative cost.
Far better to make those here work full time, and cut benefits to the bone to stop the worlds chancers copying as they rarely come here for our weather.
Whilst many work, time a house is supplied adding to loss of countryside, it would be far more beneficial to ensure that all our own people work, as THEY are here anyway, and are our responsibility not so the worlds flotsam.
Re ' I thought that finance was agreed between the car buyer and the car dealer, and not between the car buyer and black horse'.
Lti, as you are so fond of telling people on here, " You are still not listening " then perhaps I can remind you of what NC said all those years ago. That being that " The time to worry is when HMG is out of Lloyds, for then, no longer shooting themselves in the foot (as in when they were shareholders wanting the best price feasible to sell ) they will bring in draconian means of taking the undoubted profits that Lloyds make via stealth taxes, fines and other diverse means to fund the feckless to keep the high street tills pinging, if not ringing, as HMG can only take from those who have profits to do so.
So, just because something is immoral, it won't stop ANY Government from doing it, IF they deem it is for the greater good that they can no longer afford to fund, as they know a lot of shareholders who can, and will.
Just thought you may have forgotten despite me quoting it fairly often for the benefit of new comers.
Quite hypocritical and immoral of HMG as they are taking our profits, when none of this is our doing, for us being involved with yet another 'immoral' money taking scam. Just what HMG are doing. Pot-Kettle.
But being HMG they will pull the strings on the puppet CEO arm and mouth and after a fake 'resistance' he will fold like a napkin and the expected great profits will be scattered everywhere else, with a few crumbs to keep those happy with a faltering share price so long as a div and buy back fools them into thinking AGAIN, " Once this hurdle is over" all those profits will be coming 'this way'.
Never heard that for the last fifteen years or so.
Still I know in your eyes, like a proud but naive parent they can do no wrong, so know I just as well tell the cat.
Mick-b the ONLY post you have made that I have ever thumbed up.
But it must be said, that like or hate the 'type' attending Davos, their has and always will be ultra rich telling everyone else 'Don't do as I do, DO as I say' types, and like any group, be it mega rich, or immigrants arriving with nothing, or working class not 'boverin' to work', or disabled people, or mentally disturbed calimaints, or the young 'havin a kid' and not working, it WAS all 'Do-able' WHEN the numbers of all the extremes were low.
Now though we have so many in the 'once' poorer groups, all claiming ever more overly generous benefits, that has encouraged the world via info on smart phones to not await a charity or UNICEF lorry but come straight to the source of the wealth, that the amount now is killing off the wealth and adding to the poverty, thus eventually impoverishing those who used to give, but then themselves, now in need of aid.
The super rich and elite have always been immune, and always will be, but it is those near the bottom of the pile who are paying the price and realise that costly new arrivals, are costing them FAR more than the lesser group of mega rich which has always been a 'un hit able ' target for the press to stir poor hatred towards, but as that group is less a risk to the poor, then imo, rightly the newcomers will bear the brunt as if awaiting a house, a hospital appointment or a dentist then the queue in front of you will not be wearing top hats and suits, but more likely have heads and bodies swathed in ethnic apparel , thus the British people realise that a few toffs, although sickening to watch spending more on one meal than they have in a week are less 'damaging' than an ENDLESS amount of impoverished which they then have to compete directly with to gain the basic needs in their own land.
Hence the answer to the Tories would have been to end such , but NOW far far too late, so imo 'they are toast' and deservedly so, and I never thought I would ever be saying such.
I am not a Labour supporter but we know what we are getting with them, dire and destructive as it will be, but the Tories have lost their way and the entire plot imo
Re: "assuming that profitability is maintained"
And that is the the issue, for as we witness the FCA are keen to halt the easy, lucrative ways that Lloyds and other banks are getting those profits, by declaring them illegal or immoral as with PPI and now the motor car undeclared margins.
They previously made banks inform customers if better rates were to be found elsewhere and as we see the small print on anything be it loans, mortgage, insurance etc has endless paperwork wording as it has to cover every possible scenario or else the 'innocent dim, naive' customer will be 'suing' aided and abetted imo by this and any future Gov to ensure that those 'profits' are milked as much as possible by the Gov to fund the feckless so they can spend to try to sustain a feeble economy.
So, the issue for Lloyds is not 'just' the paying it back, or any 'fine' but the FACT that, that source of easy immoral income is then taken away, NEVER to return or be replaced with such easy lucrative ways to make money.
So Lloyds go into the rental sector, yet as we saw BTL owners were 'punished' by a TORY Gov, so it is most likely that the same and even more likely that a Labour Government will cane a 'rich bank' should they start to make 'decent' profits on this venture.
As I suggest rent caps will likely be bought in to 'help' the vulnerable victims of signing up for a modern expensive home that they could not afford, and in honesty were likely living in a few cardboard boxes in a different country only a few years earlier.
The Tories have become so PC, so keen on helping the poor, the downtrodden, the nere do wells, the unfortunates in society, that they are killing the Golden Goose, so normal true British people have lost respect for them now, are sick of seeing newcomers living on what they, and their ancestors worked, and fought so hard for a land fit for hero's and THEIR dependants, that to see the UK resemble mini third world countries within our small country is never going to be acceptable to many many people who have put themselves out in their own country to watch it be handed on a plate to those whose only intrest is 'bettering their lot' and the expense of the mugs who have a Government so weak it does nothing meaningful to prevent the disaster.
So I think that if the Tories 'think' the poor, the single parents, the newly arrived, the countless syndrome disabled AHD ete etc will be voting for them, they are wrong. as mostly those groups only have loyalty to whoever they think will promise to give more, and for many of the rest of us, our loyalty has been shattered by the Tories giving our small gained wealth to those whose loyalty is shown to be paper thin to their own lands, let alone their adopted home.
So whilst Labour will be even worse, like a tin of paint, you know what your are getting as it says so on the tin, with Tories they have slyly tried to be all things to all people, but have shafted their core voters who want reven
Investors state side have us down nearly 6% now.
So faith is gone, and won't be coming back anytime soon.
With these massive falls already, THINK how much this will drop when totals are announced and when Labour are jubilant.
Shame as the Tories have become too soft, too weak on immigration and things like these not so subtle stealth tax raids on shareholders to fund the feckless that they can no longer afford to do is not what anyone expected from the Tories.
Hence they will never get my vote again.
Odd thing is they won't get the working class vote, and are losing traditional voters with the weak, woke ways too.
This will cripple Lloyds shareholders, but fear not, the CEO and top board members will do very well in again, pleasing the Gov. As NC said, the "Gov may have left Greysham st, but the strings are still firmly attached to the new puppet, and run all the way back to no 10 .
Think she also said watch out for rent caps once Lloyds as a landlord takes off and makes good profits.
Nicer to listen to Lti being upbeat, but he has millions when the s.p plummets it matters not, just a game.
Understandable, when you dislike what someone else says, but know it to be true, then what else can you do but try to discredit the person writing such facts.
That way you hopefully assume that others will then ignore the contents of their posts, and instead join in the snipping.
No matter, what I say is right, and you know it, hence the not so subtle 'digs'
Man up and see the facts in front of you
Yes the truth is a little hard to accept, likely due to endless drivel of the expectation that just because we enter another year, that somehow, merely turning the calendar will end Labours popularity, will end our country being filled with ever more poor to fund daily, will make new trade deals, will stop those in power who mostly didn't want us to vote for Brexit, and so will do everything and anything to ensure, that as project fear failed to achieve the vote they wanted, then make that fear reality, allow in a Labour Gov to take the rap, and ride to the rescue a few short years late, with a 'vote of no confidence' in the Labour gov, but with a new 'arrangement' with the EU, very much resembling what it was like pre leaving. The great downtrodden broken by then British public will be all too pleased to accept a ray of hope by then, thus the Tory party have got what they want, Labour get the blame and the Tories ensure that it 'looks' as though democracy was carried out, as they got us 'out' of the EU, and slyly eased us all but back in again.
How would YOU have played it it remaining was to your advantage and what YOU wanted if you were in no 10?
It will have an upday, but only because few would buy if it fell day after day without a false bottom.
It will however plunge ever lower for rightly no-one with sense trusts the Government and it's FCA to be fair, but know it will can only milk banks, as NC said at the time, HMG didn't have years of 'bank bashing' for nothing. All a ploy for HMG to then be able to cane banks forever more with full public support, the great unwashed imagining it was 'hurting' the CEO's and board, but the fact is, they will not be harmed at all, but will just impoverish the share holders, the larger institutional holders are likely fully aware before we ever get a whiff of such new 'stealth taxes' to hit, hence the rise to 48 with hope of 50, will be the time they are unloading, knowing what is to come. We can only guess at the level of harm the Car financing will bring, AND having a Labour Gov as well.
People ask 'why is Lloyds so low' but they must understand that since easy, but immoral cash making ways are having to not only be 'paid back' BUT the banks can NEVER AGAIN use such to make 'easy but immoral' cash. So a double whammy.
With branches closed due to lack of use, then what now prevents any depositor, or borrower, just clicking online and getting what they want at a better deal. Loyalty is gone, and with HMG continually dragging Lloyds and other ex High street banking giants name through the mud, the ONLY time the great unwashed contact them now, is to 'claim compo'.
So that is why Lloyds will NEVER again be anything like it was, the world has moved on but the mindset of some has not and perhaps cannot.
Like a blacksmith quoting how many horses they have shod, and how the business has been here for three hundred years, as the first motor cars were seen, denial of a very different future is naive at best.
Profit has been made a dirty word, since the public have lost any shame and all declare themselves 'in poverty' and play the 'blame game' against the Gov, who, in turn, then desperate to try to appease, turn on banks making profit, forcing them to give to the poor, in some sort of 'appeasement' gesture, but it won't buy them votes, just contempt.
So it is easy to see why Lloyds are never going to have a decent share price ever again, as there will always be 'something' better for HMG, which ever party that is, or the CEO to 'spend' the profits on, and now profits unless squeaky clean, will be that much harder to gain and keep.
A dire share, in a dire sector.
If this happened in Russia that their Gov allowed private citizens money to be taken by dubious claims we would all deride it.
But as NC once said, "The time to worry is when HMG are out of Lloyds, for then draconian measures and stealth taxes will be forthcoming without HMG then shooting itself in the foot"
She was right.
Lloyds are so very lucky that so many blinkered, eternal optimists, STILL believe that the figures mentioned will be the max Lloyds will be paying out.
Labour will ensure that even that, is the least of our worries just as soon as they get their feet under the table of No 10
With the UK just a spongers destination for the world mobile poor it's future whoever holds the key to no 10 has never looked so dire since the World wars. At least back then, we could use all our available force to repel invaders who, arriving en-masse would have changed and ruined our lives forever. Now no longer need a weapon, as the race card is stronger than any, and all that is needed is a mobile phone to find all the info and help needed to illegally arrive and what to say to stay.
No wonder our streets are crumbling along with health service and food banks are deemed necessary for our people.
Never saw that coming, always thought filling a country with a never ending stream of people with nothing would make us all richer..... NOT.
So for that reason alone, no longer have faith in the Tories, but wise enough to know that Labour are worse, BUT won't be voting this time as outcome the same and the country ruined, not for a while, but now forever.
Hence investors, knowing wherever the UK goes, so does Lloyds, aren't buying into the vision either.
So even the Gov is joining the chancers, who are out to grab all they can, wherever they can, from those who have anything to take, and as Lloyds has made good profit, then we are a prime target for the Gov to fund the feckless with our profits.....AGAIN.
Can wait until the set aside provisions are announced and the dreamers tell us all that it has been over egged to avoid us getting hit with one off taxes for 'daring' to make a profit, and that it will be mostly returned in the way of a 'special'.
As Lti correctly says 'the market values Lloyds' and that value is a wider consensus of far more educated opinions than a few armchair holders on this bb, and so as Lti also states ' you can't disagree with the majority decision' and the majority are bringing the price down for good reason, they know what is to come.
Still will be a few false up days to fool those into thinking bottom has been hit. And as stated, will lift a few days before 22 Feb before then continuing its decent, imo.
Still you know me, not one to look on the gloomy, but real side!
Ps. forgot to add, I expect Lloyds, after it bottoms, will be 'walked' up until about 4 days pre yearly results are announced mid Feb, and then likely the last chance to run before the undoubtedly good results will be scattered to the four winds, with the Govs blessing and the CEO's salary and bonus fully intact, and knowing he will always have 'friends' in high places to look after him when ejected from no 10 for his 'services to the Tory party and country, with only shareholders the victims'.
Held for even longer. So an average of around 59p ish.
And before Lti comes on telling me "I could have sold out 15 years ago or so 'at a profit', OR could have thrown ever increasing sums of cash at a the share I was already loosing so much on (really tempting to do that..... NOT) then it is all my fault and stop whinging." I have to say that EVEN IF, this ever, by some miracle hit 59p, then I would STILL be losing tens of thousands as inflation is NOT only happened since the 'News' has since double digit inflation, made it a house hold word, as it is always there.
When cancelled out by a divi paying HIGHER than inflation, not a problem, but LLoyds never paid a dividend for years, and as most of us, know, as with property etc, the amount, or quality of property, I could 'then' 15 years ago buy, COMPARED to now, EVEN if lloyds hit 59p would be far far less.
So as I always say, don't forget to include TRUE inflation or buying power of your 'investment' or disinvestment' into the equation when you are telling all you are in profit, as can be a huge difference if you dare do so.
Still always easier and you are more 'accepted' if a cheerful,' seeing the Emperor fully clothed' as most of the rest of the 'herd' prefer to do. Seeing him naked and withered away daily is not for all to admit, as, like I said with Lti, it then 'reflects badly' on the poor investment decision. A step to far to accept for many egos
Re Lti, " Don't understand this fella"
Quite simple to understand. Likely bought up in a very wealthy family, and, if like those wealthy families I know, 'they' can never do any wrong, or at least ever 'admit' that 'they' have made a mistake.
So when holding, living and breathing a share that you have been praising for a decade and a half, when it still is a massive disappointment these people can never bring themselves to admit such, as it would, in 'their' eyes, reflect as badly on them for making a wrong decision in buying such, as it would on Lloyds company, which it has revered for so long.
So if you can fool some navie folk, and others in the same boat as you that, no, this is good to have a low share price so that any buyback sum is more effective, it sounds far better than saying ' I was wrong', which must never be uttered or even considered in such 'circles'.
Come out with a bit of spiel that the reason it is good, is akin to buying a 50p coin for 40p, type rubbish, blame the 'market' on unpredictability and 'job done' you 'feel' vindicated as your portfolio value ebbs away.
Problem is, with this latest hit from car finance Gov / business scam to feed more cash into a cash strapped public and high street, if it is as big or bigger than suggested 'there won't BE any cash available for the much hyped but useless 'buybacks' nor dividends.
With Labour likely to walk the next election a perfect storm to walk this down, as IF, and a BIG IF, people were honest, just how many of us would be buying this banking stock If we were fully out of it? I wouldn't, but I come from a poor background so am able to 'admit' my mistake in buying this share.
Others are so used to blaming others for their stupidity, bad luck, or follies that they can never admit to making mistakes, it is, to them all a matter of shame and honour.
The market knows this is going down, either by the car finance or a combi of Labour in no 10 and IF I were wise I would sell the lot and never buy in again, but I unlike the wealthy haven't the confidence to act on my 'lowly' assumptions, so trust the Lti's, and other clever, wealthy people, like a broken clock, MUST be right, someday, just it hasn't happened yet, nor will it this year, or likely the next five.
Lovely to see the posters optimistic posts are STILL played out regrading yet another Government gain by allowing, if not aiding and abetting yet another 'legal helicopter cash' giveaway to the feckless to keep the UK's high street till pinging, just.
But even IF, which is unlikely this misplaced trust in ' This time it won't bee too bad' for us, as we witnessed last time with PPI EVERY payment, from first to last, was met with stupid chat of 'They have over done it' and 'We will likely get back most of the provision set aside in a 'special div'. Yeah... right, like that happened.
But IF for once those who can't bear the truth of forthcoming massive losses for Lloyds 'were' right, then the Labour party having a 'landslide' will drag this share to the floor, and IF both events coincide paying 'dividend' tax for Lloyds share holders will be the ONLY thing we won't have to concern ourselves with.
Asperger, what this weeks, and most other weeks observation shows on your varied and interesting comparison chart, is, what Newchurch suggested years ago, that LLOYDS is a dire share, compared to 'all' listed today.
Thank you for confirming what most all have sadly come to realise over time by your time consuming but informative analysis
Clearly 'one' on here who is incapable of either seeing, or having others point out that Lloyds is one of the most dismal performing shares to hold will 'disagree' as, like all shares it 'depends' when you bought, and if you are able to keep throwing ever more huge amounts of cash to 'average down' to whether you 'think' it is good or not.
But, that person also has to consider the fact that to have bought other shares instead of falling in love with Lloyds , that they would be even richer, would have even less tied up in a very sensitive sector, and are ONLY making on it by constantly 'correcting' their folly of buying in 'too high' by then having to pump in ever more cash to redeem their mistake to lower their average.
Most haven't the capital to do that, AND if we did, would likely STILL 'accept' that Lloyds is 'dire' by the very fact of forcing us to keep throwing money at it to then assume we are actually 'in profit'.
If that money spent on Lloyds had been invested in many other shares, then they would 'see' how much they are truly losing by choosing Lloyds over many other shares out there. Also never discount the years of inflation on the capital you have 'invested' and what it 'would' have bought you way back then, to what it will buy you now. Be it property, land, or a bag of doughnuts.
Chances are for most lth's their perceived break even, is WAY higher that what they like to 'assume' it is, in 'purchasing power' which is why most invest to keep up, or hopefully exceed that power, and with Lloyds it has failed miserably to do either for many of us, IF we were honest.
Seems like the wheels have come adrift now. Is this due to leaks, as can't believe after months of waiting, it is just a case of 'impatience' that the share price plunges ever lower.
Likely be diluted more than a Vicarage Garden Party Orange squash.
Had hoped this wasn't the typical aim I swore I would never invest in again, but it seems like it is , and I did!
I have said for YEARS that the time to 'worry' was when HMG so 'called' were out of Lloyds. For then, draconian measures would be bought in to find any means to 'take' the undoubted profits and distribute them to the masses.
Hence why Lloyds has always been low, for those in the know understand this, and whilst crumbs from the table will fall the shareholders way, they will only ever be crumbs, for the large profits will do what HMG can't afford to do itself, and be used to fund the feckless, in any way, and every way it can, in an attempt to keep tills pinging, to prop up the UK's ailing economy.
Boat loads of illegals arriving with nothing all need fully funding, and now the British public are growing ever poorer, they can only take from those who are earning large profits.
A disgusting share, a disgusting board of directors, ever keen to keep HMG content, not the shareholders, and since HMG left the building the puppet strings are still intact all the way back to NO 10, and the puppets willing hand to agree to whatever HMG dictate will still be raised whether Tory or Labour are pulling the strings.
I said at the time of Lloyds being landlords, that eventually that will be curbed, as likely HMG will impose rent caps, limiting income but HMG will still bring in more costly legislation, more fines for so called failings.
Lloyds is not a private banks still Government run, and you can bet the only reason the price hit 48 ish was as those in the closer circles were well informed early, and got out at a reasonable price to them, prior the massive drop we will now endure once more.
Lti can tell all the 'market dictates the price' which we all know, but it is due to the fact that Lloyds is always going to be milked dry by HMG that the 'market' avoids paying more for a share which is influenced by a cash strapped Gov with a very 'accommodating' board of rich directors always willing and able to do their bidding.
I know Labour will ruin this share and the economy but have no trust in this bunch we have in atm either.
Sadly although having been proven right with my assumptions have never sold this pile to my lasting regret.
Why anyone would buy this is beyond me.
The dim assumption that 'because' it makes good profits I guess, but no good if only a pittance is ever going to come 'our way' especially when you can now get as much in a bank account.
I know Ltil is always pleased, whatever Lloyds do, if the share price drops 'in joy' as more buy backs for their buck' but for non millionaires, and bitter disappointment and there are sadly more of 'us' than multi millionaires on here, and so it will ever be if investing in dire shares such as this.
Lloyds only 'structural hedge' is the skill of keeping its shares so low in demand that the price never rises as it should, which then prevents any steep falls in a decline.
Always an excuse for this rubbish to stagnate. Years of hurdles and milestones past, yet the share price defies double digit inflation, defies higher interest rates, defies the massive buybacks, and the good profits it makes.
There is a reason the market places a weak value on Lloyds, because it knows it will never be as it once was now HMG have had their claws into it. Immoral profit making PPI paid back, but now not having these easy sources of profit ever again. So now competition and HMG overseeing of future profits will ensure the share price is forever subdued. The only positive is the fall in bad times can't be as steep as it otherwise would be as it never reaches the dizzy heights to feel the crashing lows.
I know it can't happen but if we paid as we guess at start of year, then the full amount would be certain to go to the chosen charity. Seems many happy to enter but not so keen to pay up.
Maybe make it a tenner to enter and then a pound for each penny the guess is either over or under, calling the comp 'in for a penny, in for a pound' May make the guesses more apt too.
Still a great way to raise money, and many likely on hols or too ill to care yet.
Just need someone trustworthy, who won't run off to the South of France with the comp money.
Always a fly in the ointment.
I guess that the morning will bring a short brief drop in share price, followed by a swift rise of d.d percent.
Just a feeling.
Maybe the time to buy is now, or is this another 'spike' on good news, to then ebb away on the huge tasks that have yet to begin for PXC? Hard one to call imo.
Phoning or contacting those with a far larger vested interest in keeping the dream going as long as they can, would be akin to having a phone line on the defence side of a Court case.
Clearly only going to tell you what they want you to believe, clearly using the 'inside info' rules and laws to avoid any difficult or potentially damaging answers having to be given.
The boards salary is unknown to me, but I wonder what they take in wages and expenses compares to what they have 'invested' themselves, whereas us investors, or gamblers, ONLY have what we invested, we are not paid a salary or expenses, so unlike us, they can string us along for as long as punters keep funding them.
Finance will be hard to get at decent rates, but most of us bought into the 'issue' thinking we were lowering our averages, but would have done far better to have waited and bough in now.
Always wary on the low number of daily trades, for a supposed great mine in a safe country.
Not the normal pump and dump, as with such usually a flurry of buying then the fall, here, just the latter, so I guess that makes this different as we never really had the spike to be left impaled upon
The fact that only 1 % has been surveyed could equally mean that the 99% which hasn't is fit for tumble weed growth.
Too simplistic 'one mine' funds the next keeping dilution to the min, WE will see when the terms of the deal are made ready, and imo, IF good, leaks would have ensured the s.p would be rising at this stage not falling.
Happy to be proven wrong of course but a phone call to someone who can not tell the whole truth and nothing but is pointless, so atm, conjecture, logic and fear rules here.