Member Info for Aus3009

Fleccy - o don’t want to state the obvious to you or always a profit or terraplane

But I’ve not suggested other operators can provide backhaul using their own networks, where their networks don’t reach

Neither did I suggest BT or openreach wouldn’t have the majority of access

Mobile backhaul was simply another example or many where openreach has competition from other networks & that overtime this won’t get better.

As for all the difficulties doing something else with openreach, of course it will need work and of course it wouldn’t be easy, but that’s why CEO’s are paid the big bucks & can I remind posters. It was in fact the CEO who said she would do something different with Openreach if its value wasn’t included in BT valuation. I am literally guessing what that might mean & what this could look like, even after the fibre rollout is complete, which again is what she said.

Always a profit

Let’s recap. You have gone from

Other network providers don’t compete with openreach because they don’t do mobile backhaul

To other network providers do do mobile backhaul but always use openreach

To other network operators do do mobile backhaul, without openreach, but do use openreach when their network doesn’t have access.

Does that pretty much cover your contribution?

Whereas I said they did from the start & this was an example of non BB competition & I said over time other operators are only going to do more of it…..

Always a profit

I think (as teraplank) you stated only openreach supplies mobile backhaul and other networks didn’t.

Now you are saying they use openreach to carry their services, here is some actual information

Virgin Media O2 has upgraded 1,000 of its mobile backhaul connections to use its own 10Gbps fibre network, rather than relying on Openreach. These upgrades are part of a broader initiative to enhance mobile connectivity across the UK by using Virgin Media O2's Converged Interconnect Network (CIN).

The number increasing all the time.

City fibre

CityFibre provides mobile backhaul connections without relying on Openreach by building its own fiber optic network infrastructure and offering services directly to mobile network operators. They have partnered with mobile providers like Three UK to connect mobile masts and small cell access points, enabling these operators to bypass Openreach for backhaul services.

Vodafone who also use Virgin for backhaul and demonstrates competition, decreasing reliance on openreach

Vodafone primarily uses Openreach (a BT subsidiary) for their mobile backhaul in many areas, but they also have their own independent backhaul network, particularly in areas where they acquired Cable & Wireless. It's estimated that they use their own backhaul at fewer than 3,000 sites currently, with plans to expand that number. For the rest of the country, they rely on a mix of BT, Virgin Media, and microwave links, similar to other mobile operators.

Snoopz - Terraplank is continually making fool out of himself

Most recently, he will puke the idea openreach doesn’t face much completion citing things like openreach backhaul & that only openreach do this.

Clearly altnets and virgin media are already eating into this area of business too

It’s the same for almost every post he has ever written, flat wrong, doesn’t even bother to research he is so convinced by his own superiority, I think they call it Dunning Kruger

I get what you say. If everything continues as is, without a bold change on BT’s part, I see altnet consolidation over time, probably ending up with usual suspects owning most of it.

From there, I see slow decline as more and more of BTs business is chipped away at, like it has been for last decades. Ultimately power will swap from incumbent network operators to large scale service providers, who can move their business elsewhere.

Bold moves now could stop all this in my opinion

“You mean 600 - 800 thousand “ yes lil Rod sorry I mean currently losing 6 to 8 hundred thousand BB customers to the competition.

The Rod is BT says it’s where they don’t have fibre, but will they come back when they do have fibre available ? Or are these first signs of real competition that’s just going to get worse?

Lease network to Openreach, share Openreach with other big operators, remove the need for them to use altnets etc, it all goes away. It will be a straight retail and service fight & BT would be much fitter without the weight of its investment

Yes lil Rod although in my opinion a sell off weakens BT where as a big lease deal, will only strengthen it.

I think it would cause a massive feeding frenzy for all the big operators to grow their business through openreach, which will help pay off BT depts. in 50 years or so BT still owns the network and they can make choices then, hopefully dept free and flourishing. It might suit them to renew for another 50 years, who knows?

An openreach with a 50year lease on the BT network has got to be worth 40+ billion ? If BT can share that across other operators either equal parts or BT majority holder then got to be looking at £30b + coming in, plus leasing & a share of a flourishing business all your competitors are working hard to make a success, which would also, finally be incorporated into the share price value.

Over time Sky would be the limit, in medium term I would guess north of £5? £30b alone even without better prospects and growth should be £3 on top of SP, give or take.

Correction “6 to 8 hundred broadband customers “

Hit the nail on the head there lil Rod, they can’t see past their next dividend re-investment, they all have strong toxic opinions about things they misunderstand, “a la” the competition

I see them laugh about UBS & mr Tang (who I think is over the top) in the same way as they used to mock Deutsche Bank. predicting £1 share price when it was £3,80.

They are all possible futures & we can already see the competition eating away, the stuff we see is the 600 to 800 broadband customers, but there’s much more

An openreach owned by several big players would thrive, no need for these companies to look elsewhere. A 50 to 100 year contract where BT leases its network to Openreach would give everyone time to make lots of money, including BT finally seeing values from its network ownership. Heck even Virgin media / O2 could see sense.

Not only would openreach thrive, I think it removes all the headwinds holding back BT share price.

BT gets part ownership of an even faster expanding business without competition worries - dept paid down - pension paid down — share price get added value and now incorporates value of leasing network, and part ownership of Openreach (currently not adding value like it should ) Ofcom happy as industry just becomes a standard retail price and service game.

I’ve been thinking this for a while lil Tod but it was you who added the detail I missed.

This is why I’m invested. I look to possibilities like this & SP growth rather than dividends, which I get anyway.

Exciting times, maybe SP can keep increasing steady as it goes, which I would be happy with, but a plan similar to this would turn SP into a rocket !!!! IMO

Sometimes posters forget BT needs these service providers to pay for their investment.

If there is any doubt about you being wrong about everything always a profi. I’ll include this from a very good AI, seeing as you really aren’t. Know it all .

Besides Openreach, Virgin Media and CityFibre are significant providers of mobile backhaul services in the UK. Mobile network operators (MNOs) can also self-supply their own backhaul or source it from wholesale providers like Virgin and CityFibre.

….. apologies would be accepted.

Always a profit. Again I don’t like your tone.

It’s only okay to act like a superior when you are one & you are not.

I’m not only talking BB I’m talking about the OR as a business.

Most of the other service providers do business services, for many of them they would see owning a part of OF as an opportunity to do more, it’s one of the reasons why they would invest.

& BTW, you

Might want to look at Vodafone and O2 to see how they are getting on not using openreach for their mobile masts and their intentions to use less in the future, that would be part of the competition I was referring too, e we hy would they swap openreach out, it they owned part of OR?

Listing everything Openreach does for every conversation would make me as boring as you, so rest of us keep it simple & understand when we refer to Openreach we mean Openreach not just BB.

Completion = competition (am on a train)

Always a profit - I don’t think billionaires / movers and shakers share the mindset of owning 20% & bring happy with an investment strategy of taking dividends and re-investing.

That would be for the non movers and shakers.

Also have to remember DT took £4.50 per share for their half of EE back in the day.

& lastly the below doesn’t describe a takeover, it’s a defensive play BT could do to get value from Openreach, keep long term ownership of the network, get major income from other operators who want to own a share of OR (as a business), minimise the risk of large scale wholesale customers like SKY turning to other cheaper networks (there will be a price point BT will lose out because of their massive investment, in which case they start to lose) & finally offload so much of the regulator interference

The key point here that Fleccy and many others refuse to acknowledge is BT is vulnerable, the biggest nightmare for BT would be for their largest wholesale customers, for example Sky using other networks in preference in openreach when and where they can. IMO opinion this is the one and only risk BT faces. Under conditions like this BT will not be able to compete on price, a competitor wouldn’t need to operate on rations for very long to do real damage & I wonder whether BT could adjust quick enough or even if there was a strategy with so much dept, with BT’s size ball so being a hindrance.

Better for BT to find a way to keep these wholesale customers it needs to pay off its investment happy with a share of the pie, then to find itself in a fight where size won’t matter much.

IMO one way or another this kind of completion needs to be avoided unless everyone is sure the completion isn’t going to get its act together in the next 20 years.

Mararab - you are kind of agreeing, the OR valuation is not reflected in the share price.

I agree SP is drifting up & maybe it will increase enough to include OR ?

But that still leaves BT / OR in a competitive environment where their biggest customers / service providers could begin choosing other networks where available. At very least they will have to reduce their prices, but with a burden of dept needed to roll out fibre, there is a limit how far prices can reduce.

May never happen but this is the risk.

By sharing openreach with other service providers BT can lease its network to Openreach for say…. 50 years, this is how BT would suddenly open up the value of its network and Openreach.

Other operators see this as at least a 50 year business, pay BT huge sums, this helps BT.

BT continues to own the network.

These service providers will use the network they have invested in…

You might not agree, but this is a very interesting idea and it’s pretty much come from lil Rod…………

BT would benefit from the value of the network, its share in openreach, less risk from competition and reduced OFcom regulation

Is the theory

Snoopz - you ignore some of the risks going alone.

Openeach & BT are held back

By concerns over. Competition. No one thinks this competition will ruin BT overnight, but the risk to BT is wholesale customers like SKY like Vodafone slowly bleed out to other networks, as and when they can.

If these companies part owned OR, it incentivises them to use OR, rather than altnets etc.

Removing this risk, would / should return share price value, quickly.

Even the mere rumour would help,

Snoop - good logic, good to see you are thinking it through

So the poster (s) you refer to are mainly playing with the idea Openreach could be shared out amongst the bigger players, with BT having majority ownership & Openreach with a very long term contract to carry on doing what they already do.

Incentivises some of those big wholesale users to stay with Openreach rather than. Play with altnets. BT maintains some income, gets influx of cash & Openreach value should be included in share price (less than 100%) ownership.

In amongst the posts this is the underlying, thought out plan.

What does your analytical mind say about that as both a defensive move and added value?

The irony or should I say morirony of calling someone that on a public post, whilst claiming to block, posters just like himself.

Anyone clicking the recommendation tab for the below post should be ashamed of themselves, never mind the dimwit posting it.

There’s a serious problem if you can’t even ignore posters you have blocked, on top of a very fragile character flaw that they need to block anyone on a public site.

It’s all projection of course.

For BT SP to recover from a bad start like this confirms it seems resilient and determined, maybe £2 in on the way.

& BTW, that’s not what ceo said on her previous recorded interview. She was clear not having OR value incorporated in SP could be a trigger to do something different. Maybe that’s what she is still referring to when she remarks about SP increasing. But has long way to go to incorporate £20b +

I do, but not sure that covers his creepy, nasty interactions on this board.

Very bitter, very twisted & an unhealthy interest in poster he apparently doesn’t want to read?

Some posters have already given away they are employed by BT. If they are a fair reflection of their staff, no wonder.

Phatz - you are the resident gob.