Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Celtic - it's near enough 4mths since the license was announced and there isn't even a hint of who has it in any corner of the internet. For all we know it's been renamed and is currently undergoing preclinical research in combination with other drugs prior to trials in humans.
I keep looking on the US clinical trials website for any newly registered trials mentioning chk1 or anything that could be linked to 737 - nothing to report so far.
We can't even say for sure if our own BoD know who has it. You'd have thought the US firm would announce the deal in a 'look at us! see what we're doing now!' kind of way. I can only hope bigger games are being played behind the scenes and we'll all be pleasantly surprised when we know what's really going on.
Although Potnak suggests it might be with a small company looking to do a bit of work on it before selling it on (which is plausible), I'd be surprised if the CPF picked a small company over a larger pharma to progress 737 (assuming large pharma were interested).
In a nutshell, I'm stumped.
I just hope any negotiations are done with proper advisors who have a excellent track record. The bod have proven to me that they can’t do any licensing/ partner deals alone.
Hbd - I think the reality was that the bod were reliant on a buoyant share price and fully intended to drawn down every penny of the RF funding - we all know how that panned out. I can’t see how they could think that 737 would provide enough funding. I think it is more naivety and poor management perhaps?
The problem with partnerships and licensing deal is that I see this becoming a long drawn out trip to achieve real gains . We already have a deal with 10s of millions in milestone payments but here we are languishing . Honestly the bod need to take a reality check and do the “right” deal. Maybe given that most of us hold more shares than they do, they are not so driven?
Thanks hot. I also think same as you, they know that it was potential combo blockbuster from all the data and they would make sense . Dont understand why these companies hide their details from us...
CHK 1 has shown great data on combo in humans so we know it works and a umet market there with anogenital and other cancers.....
Hopefully new pharmaceutical that has taken will show their trie colours and take it forward.... hopefully we know by November I think? Any views appreciated ta
Conz/Dorset - at the time the BoD maybe knew a 737 license was in the closing stages and they probably thought there'd be an upfront payment large enough to cover our needs so RF was just a 'short-term payday loan' that turned out to be ill-advised and/or poorly chosen. Suddenly it went from we only need a a few quid to tide us over until the end of the month to oh crikey, we're now tied to a chair in a deserted warehouse and our kneecaps are soon to be history.
Luckily, enough shareholders heard the screaming and burst in to save the day.
I also think how can people so smart get it so wrong. It's not that this type of finance does not have form and past bad outcomes could have predicted the mess we ended up in especially with the jackals of AIM looking to feast on the wounded beast for short term gain. I recall the board making a specific point that its was flexible and only funds that were required would be drawn down which gives your theory legs. But then I think that people, no matter how smart need to have a business rather than a scientific brain/experience to navigate such treacherous waters and this lack of appointment was the root cause.
Just in my view
Hi Celtic - any intellectual property Sierra was able to develop whilst 737 was licensed to them should be handed over to the CRT Pioneer Fund as they are the owners of 737 (we are only financial beneficiaries if there's a commercial license). This doesn't stop anyone from patenting a novel use of the compound e.g. the Celtic007 Pharmaceuticals & Dangerous Toy Company Ltd doesn't own the rights to 737 but you could patent a use which if approved means someone would have to pay you a fee if their use infringes your patent.
If you look at another patent (see below) and click on the 'show all events' filter in the right-hand column, you'll see an entry dated 5/2/24 that says the patent is assigned to CRT Pioneer Fund.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210077499A1/en?oq=US20210077499A1
It's possible all IP has been handed over by Sierra but the admin side is yet to filter through to all the patents. I still think our mystery licensee is Sierra (again) as they have so much work in the compound & patents.
Just my thoughts on this one Potnak.
I would suggest that it may very well be that 1802 has a higher selectivity over Jak3 than 1801
As far as l can remember there was a Jak 3 inhibitor Ruxolitinib ( not sure if spelled correctly)
that was used and approved in some haematology cancers some years ago. I also am of the belief that it was to be approved for T ALL cancer just a few years back.
The point here is that whilst Jak3 may well be adept at cancers it does knacker the immune system leading to increased risk of infections.
Jak3 can only pair with Jak1.
I would suggest also along with T ALL cancer it may prove effective in colon or bowel cancer.
Now, UC and CD have a high tenancy to lead to colon or bowel cancer.
Such is the close link here between the 2 that dependant on severity 1802 may prove to have greater efficacy in UC and CD.
I may be off my nut, but is just my way of thinking on this.
Regards
Surely when sierra handed back then all patents went back to us? What use is them having a patent but not that molecule? Thanks
Anyone got views on the idea that a deal of some sort was considered so close that the RF finance was “just a financial gap filler” that went wrong? It’s all really messed with my head and investment!!
Volume would suggest another 200k sold today.
If anything was to trigger a TO, it's the similarities in 1801 and 2. It would make sense to buy up both, to lock in all indications. If SAR do on license 1801, then 1802, if it goes elsewhere may become a competitor and it gets messy. I don't think the TO scenario is likely but the chance to cover dozens of indications, immune and cancer must be on some radar somewhere.
Looks like Sierra are keeping a tight grip on patents covering 737. The link below shows a Japanese application was published on 30/1/24 so they're obviously happy to keep paying for the patent process though not sure if it's now effectively assigned to CPF.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/result.jsf?_vid=P22-LVMG62-27469
More than likely will go to different partners.
SDC1802 may well prove very encouraging in auto immune. Whilst similar in the compounds there does exist a difference.
Bare in mind that 1802 was being tested in SLE.
It is not beyond probability that preclinical data on 1802 may well indicate areas of auto immune that 1802 would have greater efficacy in.
However, even if this was not the case, anybody that the licensed was obtained by, could not use the 1802 compound for auto immune conditions, without additional payment for the use of.
Had this patent not been obtained, in theory a licence owner could trial in Indications and may be obtain approval for clinical use in auto immune. In this case Sareum would receive no funds as not in the patent description.
My own personal opinion is that SDC1801 would lack efficacy on cancer. I may be wrong.
We have a point here with auto immune in that could 1802 prove competitive against 1801 on some auto immune conditions such as UC or CD?
We will get to know in time.
Regards
Me too. It must be close now…
Be glad when this overhang is exhausted and RF are out of the picture so that the SP can begin to rise again
Hi SOG or anyone who has, an opinion. With the latest patent news covering 1802 for immune too. Does that make it more or less likely that the TYK2 compounds could go to separate partners? Also, does that mean that 1801 could cover some cancers?
No adverse effects up to 300mg per day.
Thst on its own is satisfactory.
In addition we await PK and biomarker data which will give an insight as to the most promising Indications that SDC1801 is likely to have most efficacy in on top of Psoriasis.
Silver, just sell at £3 when we get there? I know this is a big if but if 1801 and 2 are good. £300 million is nowhere near enough for two tyk2 and a 27% share in a 737. Frankly, if 737 comes good in p2 combo trials. You've got your £300 there.
Boyasaka - the BoD already has enough info for them to announce they are looking to start P2a trials this year but you ask what if the data isn't positive? Without positive data the BoD will have announced their own demise which would be an odd thing to do.
300 million is about £3 a share. Whilst £10 a share and a market cap of 1 billion would be ideal (Thoth2’s target) frankly if someone took us out in one go at £3 I’d accept that now although I know some would prefer £5 so they can at least show some profit after getting in during 2021.
SDC-1801 moving steadily through the clinic (P3)
If the Phase Ia data are not positive?
Yes, in terms of total time to trial 2a skips over a fair bit. It's a good move IMO, and I think the board are using the likes of Sotyktu as validation to skip to 2a. I'm hoping, if we are in licencing talks that the fact BMS paif $4 billion for Sotyktu warrants a decent upfront for Sareum.
Yet by skipping P1b, the net result must be we've brought P2a forward. Mind you, time is an illusion so.....