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Btw this announcement means they will save money on development costs and it adds credibility to potential collaborators. Hence a bit more foundations being laid. It also softens the blow if we get no deal with Medimmune- more characterisation of the product is needed before others will commit money to it. I agree with Mazik that it’s a long road IMHO

This share is only for the experienced- not me

However, re incomes- there is only one licensed cell/gene therapy product
All other companies in this field rely on collaborations for income

Is that years away?

My final thought (today)on this is that we are still at a v early stage- one year from first human trials. We are still to progress to animal studies. Also it has to be manufactured to the required standard and we have to decide what type of cancer/ organ we are treating. We and our partner have to start somewhere though. It’s funny that possibly our first customer could be one of the worlds largest pharma

I agree artyth re comments on trial. The were relying on preclinical dissolution data, but the results were miles off. They made the product worse not better and they probably realised it was a dud after the first 2 or 3 participants. NT was relying advice from his chief scientist and they both grossly underestimated the degree of dissolution required. Maybe they should have asked Pfizer and saved us and them a lot of money. Let’s hope their judgement on nuvec is a lot better. Leishman and Hey should give them much needed expertise and Medimmune will test whether it meets their needs in a thorough way. BTW this B.B. has been extremely polite about NT- I suppose we have to keep the faith. Maybe Hugh will return in glory one day

I am trying to cheer myself up looking at stuff on Medimmune collaborations

This is a link to a similar link on the 4DMT deal but with more context from the Medimmune perspective
http://www.pmlive.com/pharma_news/az_makes_gene_therapy_move_with_4dmt_alliance_1243890

The article suggests that they are moving more strongly into the gene therapy area which is still in its infancy. However the viral vectors are much more developed vs inorganic. Maybe that's why they are collaborating with the likes of us, as well as big companies like 4DMT. Are there any other companies in the UK offering an inorganic vector for them to work with? I think there is one in Singapore.

One thing that this suggests is the Medi are not doing bluesky research with n4p. Will we get a deal with them if nuvec can be manufactured satisfactorily (n4p role) and does well in testing on Medi's cell lines? They could buy us with their loose pocket change

We should strongly encourage N4p to publish the results of the sildenafil trial in a medical journal. It will help the research community assess the likely benefits of further research here. It is also a sign of probity of the company

Medimmune made first step into vectors for gene therapy 12/7/18 with collaboration with 4DMT- they produce a viral based vector

https://pharmaphorum.com/top-pharmaceutical-companies/astrazeneca/az-steps-avv-field-medimmune-4dmt/

This is a bit different to deals to collaborations with dna/rna producers eg inovio (HPV vaccine) or ethris (see below)
https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/articles/2017/astrazeneca-and-medimmune-enter-strategic-collaboration-with-ethris-to-develop-mrna-therapies-for-respirator-diseases-17082017.html

Medimmune (from website) have made 85 collaborations since 2013, and 4 acquisitions. Oncology is one of their 3 priority areas

Thanks John. The SP suggests no one thinks that the AZ collaboration will immediately bear fruit. The RNS suggests that as you say they need more evidence to present to prospective partners and Collecting this with AZ gives us much more credibility. N4p dangle their market research which suggests we will be part of 100 billion dollar markets and we will be in partnership with AZ or Pfizer reformulating their drugs which they have failed to do themselves. This is sickenly out of kilter with our current circumstance. However we could become a medium size player with sustainable sensible growth avoiding the pump and dump- this would still mean massive gains as per taffevans

Yes this well summarised. It suggests that N4p have engendered enough confidence to attract a professional with experience in much larger companies. He is not retirement age and I presume he wants to progress/ maintain his career for a few years to come. Their timetable is to have a product ready for phase 1 trials in 2020. They will need to manufacture it at scale and show satisfactory p/ks, dna loading, possibility of transfection in different cells. What will need to be in place for them to receive money from a collaborator? How developed does nuvec have to be?

Takeda is a worldwide Pharma. He worked for them in roskilde. He seems a good fit. They need specialists in each area, otherwise they end up completely out of their depth as per reformulation.

I think the most useful people N4p met on the japan may have been the fellow attendees from the uk- the may make useful connections in the future I may be too pessimistic but n4 are now valued at only 4 million- having said that NT has built 30 million companies twice before now. Btw NT is on the japan online video- nice to see he got a look in

I still have hope that they can turn this round with nuvec. That may be a recipe of just losing more money but selling this low is difficult. I think nuvec is a different challenge to reformulation, with the aim primarily to secure collaborations in a growth area which the government are supporting with 70 million, and N4p are in the less challenging position of producing a non organic vector which may work with multiple dna/rna products. My reading of the rns and my new doubt about NTs competence makes me think a Medimmune collaboration may be a delusion of grandeur. However matching up with multiple smaller start up dna/ rna producers using the Stevenage manufacturing site seems perfectly feasible

Apologies- no full report- the bit in the rns which talks of the drug having to be kept in the mouth for longer than expected

Dear taff you played the ponzu scheme v well. Hands up to you

Btw they did give it a trial on Hugh Wilson and it gave him a boner for a month. He was a misleading participant

The trial report makes for unpleasant reading. It sounds As though Nigel’s ‘very clever science’ lead to a nasty sludge in the participants mouths. Maybe N4p will win a ‘special’ prize from Pfizer as the most innovative copycat version turning viagra into a soapy laxative. This isn’t that funny I still have a lot of money invested in these delusional conmen

I don’t find N4p relaxing. Its 500 percent swings rather the usual 10-20 percent up and downs.

Btw the royalty figures are double digit percentage of sales- for inovio

An estimate of an upfront payment for nuvec: Medimmune paid 27.5m dollars upfront to inovio for their hpv vaccine in 2015 which continues to be tested in trials. Development and commercial milestone payments up to 700m. If we give a conservative estimate for the nuvec vector of 0.2 (?) of the dna component this gives approx upfront payment of approx 6m dollars. Milestone payments up to 140 m? This is in one collaboration alone What do others think? I have rudimentary financial knowledge. Happy for this to be rubbished. How does this fit into financial modelling with probability of success factored in at each stage

Btw aimchaos is a bit harsh on sildenafil- he refers to nuvec as the main product- discounting the reformulation division- we still do not have full results on a product which is in clinical trials