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Eish & seer - enjoying the dialogue and Trump views, think you're onto a winner here :)

Treadstone - Annual product was always around 55,000 - 60,000 ounces, I think the 35,000 ounces quoted is the interim total (ie over two quarters). An excellent achievement ofcourse. But there hasn't been a staggering increase to projected production. Remember we were always producing around 13-14koz each quarter but it has risen recently thanks to management initiatives.

I don't know. From my personal experience personal loans don't require additional evidence, you just fill out the forms and sign that what you've detailed is the truth. Small business loans with my bank required a meet and a discussion over business plan etc but obviously there's a lot of trust the bank are placing with you to actually grow the business in the future and repay the loans. With HAYT they have an established relationship with their bank and conduct regular meets with them, soon to include financing tests from the end of March which will give the bank even more clarity over its position. I highly doubt the company will need to provide evidence of further orders, but rather a detailed set of revised projections that illustrate cash-flow requirements. The orders will come in due course, what matters is whether the company can afford to take on more short term loans and whether the bank is supportive of this. They may bump up the interest but this is everyday business for RBS and the likes of HAYT with a long standing reputation of excellence in its sector will be very appealing. Deal terms will favour the bank but should not be unduly harsh I would hope On another note I received my interim dividend today and along with the proceeds of a share sale elsewhere have topped up at 40.35

It's a possibility we receive confirmation they have paid before the 28th but this extended due date was announced two weeks late in the first place. So we may receive the news in the first week of March. I have no doubts it will be paid on time. Then there is a final payment due by the end of March of £300k which should be fine so no reason to update the market. That is unless they come to a new agreement with the bank about extending new loan commitments to help fund the expanding pipeline of business. This I am hoping will boost sentiment and provide a bit of a floor.

Wuffle - you were right, Stillwater are planning to expand the Blitz project and they anticipate "production of 270,000 to 330,000 PGM ounces/year when fully ramped up by 2021-2022". Now general production ramp up quite often comes in gradual increments so increases to free-cash flow won't be sudden and we this will require continued capital spend, the details of which I am still looking through. If what the guest speaker said was true, that Stillwater cash-flow won't cover the servicing of the newly created debt pile Sibanye has taken on in order to merge then it adds a significant strain to the PGM sector. Dividend cuts, job cuts and lower forecast earnings short term followed by potential cash-flow issues, assuming low PGM prices come back to bite them. I doubt this will be the case however and expect we will see Sibanye complete further deals following Stillwater. They were interested in Lonmin but I don't think they will go for an all out takeover now. I don't believe Lonmin will be looking to dispose of individual assets. Which brings a potential agreement concerning the 'mines-to-market' strategy Lonmin have and Sibanye want in South Africa. Lonmin could agree a shared partnership deal whereby it retains majority control of the operation but allows for Sibanye to treat it's product for a 'toll fee'. That would be beneficial to Lonmin who have excess capacity but are reducing production.

The first 2-3 minutes help explain the situation a little clearer. Sounds to me like H118 might be a record first half year for Hayward Tyler given what Ewan said about the timing of contracts. Will be looking for confirmation of further orders due for H118 in next company update (Final Results possibly) http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/stocktube/6942/hayward-tyler-group-highlights-strong-pipeline-of-new-business-opportunities--6942.html

Strong order book and pipeline should result in a stronger out turn for 2018 at Hayward Tyler Engineer Hayward Tyler PLC (LON:HAYT) has flagged up a very strong pipeline of new business opportunities, though some orders are taking longer to land. The motors and pumps specialist said the pipeline of new business opportunities running through to the end of March 2019 stands at more than half a billion pounds, while the short-term prospects clock in at £40mln. The group had previously warned that the current financial year (to end-March) would be weighted to the second half more than usual, and while this has been the case, some of the orders it expected to cross the line in the second half of the year are now expected to be delayed until the new financial year. Some £30mln of contracts have been delayed, as a result of which the board now expects revenue for the current fiscal year will be in the range of £60-65mln, versus current market expectations of £80mln. Trading EBITDA (underlying earnings) for the full-year is expected to be break-even, Hayward Tyler said. On the bright side, the aggregate order intake secured in the four months to 31 January 2017 was £24.3mln, lifting order intake for the first 10 months of the financial year to £49.7mln, bumping up the order book significantly in the process to £52.2mln. The group is operating within its current borrowing facilities and continues to have constructive discussions with its bank, Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS), with respect to the repayment of £2.4 million of short term banking facilities, currently extended to 28 February 2017. The group is also talking to RBS about ensuring a suitable long term financing structure is in place to support the longer term prospects of the business. House broker finnCap said guidance of break-even at the EBITDA level suggests an adjusted pre-tax loss for the year of £4mln, which is the broker’s new forecast. It expects full-year revenues of £63.5mln. “While the group has a record order book, strong prospects and is expected to return to profit, we anticipate some change to our 2018 forecasts; thus – pending clarification with management and renewal of banking facilities – we place our 2018 forecasts temporarily under review,” finnCap said. The broker has also put its price target under review, but had words of encouragement for shareholders. “The shares have fallen heavily over recent months to historically low levels. Today’s announcement is disappointing, but largely anticipated and the shares factor in much of the bad news. The strong order book and pipeline should result in a stronger out turn for 2018 and we look forward to greater clarity on its longer-term capital structure,” it said. http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/173382/strong-order-book-and-pipeline-should-result-in-a-stronger-out-turn-for-2018-

http://www.mining.com/world-bank-trump-economy-commodities/

Well there we have it, confirmation of missed revenue expectations. I was hoping we would get a more positive trading update but I'm just glad it's out the way now. 40p low this morning! Disappointing. We guessed as much from the trading and how the share price has been taken down prior to certain news was released that this may be the case and following the finance update last time I wrote my thoughts that the "cash-flow must have been tight and this is a concern I think the market is fully aware of". Break even for the year would seem to confirm this. Okay so the bad news is out in the open now and there won't be further speculation as to awful results could be. Is that a double negative (ie a positive)? Haha perhaps. So expecting a bottom in and around here now in the lead up to results which will provide further details about the year ahead. "Looking ahead to the next financial year, the Group's pipeline of new business opportunities is very strong, presently amounting to over £500 million through to FY2019 with short-term prospects of over £40 million. Subject to securing further orders that are currently being tendered, the Board anticipates entering FY2018 with a record high order book." + The imminent payment of the £2.4m loan will be confirmed in the next week or two.

That's an interesting point Wuffle, I have yet to check those details so I can't confirm. I would be keen to follow up and assess what Stillwater had been developing up to the point of Sibanye's offer. I would add that Stillwater have come a long way since 2012, their output has dramatically increased to the point where I now believe the company stands in the top 10 listed PGM producers in the world. I am currently compiling research for an article on this as previous date published was for 2014 and then beyond that investors have to research individual sources. So I am hoping to outline the rankings for all private investors to make it easier. My interest is in the general trend and how much of a market share the top 3-4 have of primary platinum production. If this project does not prove too great I hope the findings will help others to make longer term decisions about the future of the platinum industry. We know global production has fallen since 2012 but it would be easier to see if this data was compiled in chart-form.

Of interest to those following the pgm space, CNBC discussion concerning Sibanye and its recent acquisition of Stillwater (original post on LMI board) They recently agreed to acquire US based precious metals producer Stillwater for a deal worth approximately "1.5x the size of Sibanye at the moment" according to the analyst on the show. Context behind the deal is to pay an all cash deal through a bridge loan at Stillwaters record highs and then raise about $1 billion from a dilutive rights issue to pay down that bridge facility. The current dividend yield is expected to be slashed and the deal will be a serious dilution to shareholders. One of the presenters suggests if Platinum is ready to go higher then now is the time to be making deals like this, that is Froneman's (of Sibanye) vision apparently and we have seen Palladium rise strongly in recent weeks. The guest analyst proposes there is not another platinum miner that is banking it's credibility on higher platinum prices more than Sibanye following this deal. Meaning even marginal producers like Lonmin are not as exposed to PGM weakness as Sibanye will be once the deal is completed. Bankruptcy is a very real risk for Sibanye if PGM prices do not continue to strengthen and I will comment on this a little later. Remember Sibanye could have played it safe and bought Lonmin, we were the cheaper option in their backyard offering the mine-to-market strategy they are after. We have it from various sources the two companies were in discussion for a while before the Stillwater deal was announced. Stillwater will apparently only increase their production by 20% and yet it will cost 1.5x their current market cap in order to acquire it! I think that excellent point puts into context just how valuable this asset space is right now and what is at stake going forward. Bankruptcy mentioned above is also touched upon in the closing statement of the discussion. The female presenter mentions the likelihood of difficulties servicing their debt if PGM prices don't gain momentum. And just listen to what the guest analyst has to add! Incredible really. The free cash flow of Stillwater is not enough to service the debt at the moment at current PGM prices. Just how do Sibanye hope to service the enormous debt pile it will soon have created for itself is a question analysts will be asking themselves for a while yet. http://gallery.cnbcafrica.com/tv/shows/hot-stocks/?ytid=AXBz8MHKuwo ps Paul the male presenter seems a little blase and calls it 'hot' but I think the other two on the show were smirking behind his back. The future value of extending the life of our SDO operations to 2027 and beyond will be substantial if the higher PGM price narrative Sibanye buy into plays out. The margins here look set to improve further. The cash pile could be deployed to better use however. A lithium licence or JV would transform the share price...

Sold down all my little exciting plays (KENV, BNR, CNR, URU) to load up some more at sub 50p. Risky being locked out of the lithium space right now but HAYT are looking so cheap at the moment. Risky also going heavy in one stock, so would like the Board to confirm my beliefs and those of fellow investors buying in around support to 1) repay the £3m due by end of the month 2) comment on the trading performance and how likely expectations will be met 3) comment on the rumours of an equity placing to shore up the short term finances

Some of you won't have been around long enough to realise this but ECR used to trade at more than 100p back in 2009-2010. Before factoring in this huge consolidation which I had predicted back in 2015 as they issued billions of shares to cover slim overheads and limited field work. Timeless and co were ramping this up about that time and moved onto MTR which has since collapsed from the bubble territory it reached. Needless to say I've watched this many times before, keep well away. All value has and will continue to be 'scuppered' away and any spikes will be short lived.

Wise move, your average is much better than mine is! I've felt HAYT are on the verge of bouncing for a while though so don't take my word for it lol

That will be the case until it's confirmed otherwise in around two weeks time we hope The £3m RCF was used to purchase fixed assets for the Centre of Excellence and the recent issue under the Loan Note Programme enables HAYT to "match long-term assets with medium to long-term debt" The company is under-going quite the transformation and I imagine margins have been hit by higher than forecast costs. This has probably created a short term drain limiting cash-flow although it could be argued the company put in place this directive so it could be executed regardless. Increasing your debt profile is not such an issue but rather the ability to repay it in full and with profit.

I would have thought that decently timed 3P given the news - "Successful completion of loan note raise" And I would have bought it too lol but have been busy elsewhere. Time to restock and take note as to what the f*ck is happening here! flundra - well if we can feel happier about one thing it's that the company listened it seems and used the phrase "supportive" this time as oppose to "supporting" haha. On a serious note, this is a good update. I said last time I didn't expect a new repayment date beyond 31 March even though I secretly hoped it would be to tie in with the relaxed covenants but even so we have raised more from the loan note than we announced we were going to previously! The £3.0m of short-term borrowings due under the RCF was to be paid by 31 January 2017 so presumably they have been hammering out an agreement since then and two weeks late here are the amended terms. The fear was a breakdown in communication which might lead to something altogether less desirable. But that's not what today's update reveals. We have loan note confirmation of £0.6m (£0.4m was mentioned last time) which leaves a potential £0.3m worth of loan notes we can further draw upon. Hopefully we don't have to from now on! Together with the £2.1m at hand mentioned mid December, it places us a whisker away from the £3m required. Cash-flow must have been tight and this is a concern I think the market is fully aware of. The questions of tight cash-flow / generation may prevail now until final results are released but I expect this will be bottom given the imminent payment of the £2.4m loan. Next week I expect. 13 February 2017 Successful completion of loan note raise Hayward Tyler Group plc ("HTG", the "Company" or "Group"), the specialist engineering Group, comprising the operating companies of Hayward Tyler and Peter Brotherhood, is pleased to announce the successful completion of its latest loan note issue at £0.6m. The loan notes carry a 1-year term and pay interest at 6.75%. Proceeds of this issue will be used to reduce the Company's revolving credit facility ("RCF") with Royal Bank of Scotland ("RBS") by £0.6m. The Group continues to have a supportive relationship with RBS, which has now agreed to extend the repayment date of the remaining balance of the £2.4m short term borrowings under the RCF to 28 February 2017. Further updates regarding the repayment of the £2.4m short term borrowings will be made in due course.

Hi saurus, the link works but for some reason is not highlighted. I found dragging over the link and highlighting, right-click and 'open in new tab' will open the link :)

Yes and it's mighty frustrating to have to pay ever higher prices but that's life. SLP headed towards the £40-50 mil mcap level

HAYT are down to £29m market valuation. Incredible to think they were valued at near £53m! Just a few thoughts to check back on in 6-12 month to see how wrong or right I was to stick with this lol. When things have looked bleak recently in stocks I trade following a negative update or a drawn out length of time, it normally pays to buy on the dips as the reversal can be swift. Check out recent lows of 9p in FBT below placing level, bouncing back to it today, KENV following placing and new CEO dipped to 9p from 15p surge and it paid to buy in the 9-11p range, now trading near 14p (although very exciting set of fundamentals). LMI released worse set of trading results seen since early 2016 and collapsed from 180 range to lows of 126. Well worth buying on weakness in the lead up to next quarter results (PGM environment positive) to touch 141 today. SCH dipped into 190s following a quiet period, before surging 25% last month and offered a decent exit level. RBN, ITQ, PEG, TON are suffered dips and have been good trades. My only nagging doubt is the financing but that's negative speculation simply based on watching the share price drift through support since mid 70s level. Lack of buyers around in the face of little company reassurance on earnings (to be expected at this stage?). The company stated almost two weeks ago that "Further updates regarding the completion of the New Loan Note issue and the repayment of the £3.0m short term borrowings will be made in due course". HAYT management need to pour some cement and fix the instability which is undermining the foundations and conclude financing to take care of short term financing worries.

ygriffiny - I probably shouldn't respond to your baiting but I think it prudent to put you straight. I said back in October when this was 17-18p that it was risky to buy. Gold was falling through support whilst PGMs were in my view likely to continue to rally. "OMI looks good value to me long term but compared to SLP the latter is clearly much better value for money" Both OMI and SLP dipped in late autumn but you tell me which one has rallied further. It's plainly obvious SLP has performed better, given OMI is now back to levels it was trading at 5-6 months ago whilst SLP is trading 25-30% higher in the same period. If you bought OMI on the dip then you did well. Not many saw a dip to 12p coming though. I wrote a message to you in November - "My cheap hedge currently is SLP which remains nicely supported at £22m with approximately £9m held in cash and expecting this to increase by a couple of million again in January. It's sensitive to platinum weakness but rhodium and palladium have been strong of late which should mean we continue to generate $4 million cash each quarter" Platinum and Gold have performed well but Rhodium, Iridium and Palladium are all trading at or around year highs which helps SLP's margins. Also garyn and myself discussed the capital requirements here, a short term cash-flow squeeze. I'm sure both stocks will continue to rise in the quarters ahead. But what I find amusing is you criticize my call since this bottomed but you forget to mention in July 2016 that you wrote - "Expect this to touch 30p in August" Hardly surprising how wrong that call was when you choose to leave ignorant one-liners to other people on this chatboard. Keep it on topic.