Member Info for Sotolo

Net debt down $11m in 4th quarter so near 50% faster that average quarters one to three and now running at $44ma year. Without the collar next year at similar gold price should reduce a fair bit faster .At current rate could be debt free in 5 years but without collar and slightly higher PM prices should be a fair bit quicker.

Well Winston sadly it will matter as Hoc will still be 10%+ lower that if costs as expected. Gold $3000 from here makes up double the extra costs so will be as though gold $2850 would have been roughly before this hit. Hence fair lower price tho hope will settle around £2.

From Brave AI “ Gold miners typically sell their gold for less than the spot price due to various factors. These include refining costs, which account for the expenses associated with purifying the gold to a high standard. Additionally, miners must pay fees to refineries, which can reduce the total price they receive for their gold. The purity of the gold also plays a role; gold from the United States often averages between 80% and 90% purity, while gold from Australia is often purer, at around 95% or higher. These impurities, combined with refinery fees, can significantly affect the final payout to the miner. Therefore, miners selling their gold generally receive a price that is below the spot price.”. Also hit further by hedge and collar on near half production this year but not 2025

What Hoc say in these results doesn’t really make sense to me? 3 months ago costs were on track. Now up 5% to 10% for year, so massively on this quarter. Yet in this last quarter Mara Rosa production was actually up to the prediction. So why have costs soared from Mara Rosa and small contributor San Jose?? Hope someone asks.

Dark Knight why are soaring costs good?

Gosh it respelled me again, doesn’t want me to write “No DIVIDEND announced, as thought wait for full yer…

Sorry dividend respected as division

No division as announced, wait for full year results not long now. Ounces steady and better next year but costs disappointing: “The Company expects its all-in sustaining cost for 2024 to be above guidance of between $1,510-1,550 per gold equivalent ounce ($18.0-19.0 per silver equivalent ounce) by between 5% to 10% due to the slower-than-expected ramp-up at Mara Rosa and higher-than-forecast inflation in Argentina. “ 2025 now even worse with projected aids 2025 $1587-1687. Also with the high costs and collar debt not down as much as hoped so only smallish divi to come. Ever a disappointment but as usual let’s hope silver price and gold ride to the rescue and we finally get both ounces and costs right in 2026. Hopefully market won’t hit us too hard and will just be muted looking at ounces next year more than costs and cahs

Yes Mr. Bo d, already back to £1.70 today in Centamin money.

I would imagine we will almost certainly get a dividend but probably not till the finals tho could be presaged tomorrow but don’t worry if it isn’t.

As said before move fro Barclays to ii, I did nd so much better

Anglo deems on a bit of a roll, about £1.64 in old Centamin price which is pretty good and rising. I always expected its share price to recover after ingesting Centamin, especially as will contribute to increased profits, the market as being a bit mean or a lot of people just wanted out of a US quoted Anglo. I am enjoying it.

Mike you say “if the current ppm and chrome price persist for the rest of the year, which they won’t…”. I agree…….they may well be lower, the company keeps saying they are about to rise, but looking at China’s huge building slowdown and huge switch to ev, demand may fall not rise even if supply falls as mines make losses. But on the plus we have near $90m cash cushion which will tide us through a while and the market seems wiser, taking this cash out the company is now worth little more than 100m which is not surprising. Given this horrendous backdrop deeply disappointing to see production tumble increasing losses. Worst is persisting in pouring our money down the Karo drain. Without Karo, with efforts to conserve cash and run the mine for max cash, we could be in a decent longer term position, but the company it seems to me has been working for a while (it seems inc putting further cash into Karo ) on its belief that PGM’s will rise. I would look forward to the presentation today on MelloMomday, but you have to pay to hear the bad news and no link. Let us just hope this is the nadir but trends extend longer than expected and simultaneous production fall is horrendous. All imho

I moved from Barclays to I just because of these sorts of shenanigans, the shares came straight into isa a were instantly dealable. I would very strongly recommend moving. The only good thing about Barclays was they kept sending me bottles of wine, vouchers, cash for the mistakes they made/things they couldn’t do. They are not really for share investors imho

Gnome, happy new year and lovely to see someone posting here at the weekend. I think that at current god prices Anglo’s forward PE is a LOT lower than you suggest. Yahoo has P/E 17.90 Forward P/E 7.15, other sites have forward PE lower, so IF gold holds or even rises shares are very good value imho

My hunk of Hoc has most happily risen far more than other miners in 2025, up well over 100% , taking into account many of the things you mention. Here’s hoping for an even half as stellar performance in 2025 as the expected things now in the price increase it further as they become real… as long as gold doesn’t fall too much. I never suggested gold is correlated with the market long term, just short term it can take an immediate tumble when stocks do as investors seek liquidity before turning back up so just not

Sure of immediate outlook

When? For me it is the time of year to take a very long view.

Given the state of borrowing and of political leaders, I expect a stock market tumble; as Philip Coggan wrote in the FT today “it may turn out that stock markets are like first class passengers on the Titanic, toasting each other with each other with champagne as the boat bears down on the iceberg.” However what then of gold, and gold miners? In falling stock markets Gold usually takes a tumble as investors seek liquidity, then rises. Miners take a bigger tumble as PE’s across the market halve or quarter, but should then hopefully soar. This from an AI search:

“ In the short term, gold may fall alongside stocks during a market crash. However, over the long term, gold tends to outperform stocks during periods of economic uncertainty and inflation…Silver, which has industrial applications, may perform differently than gold during a recession. Industrial demand for silver may decline, causing its price to fall, while gold’s price remains relatively stable or rises due to its safe-haven appeal…

The performance of gold during a stock market crash depends on the investor’s timeframe. For those holding gold for the long term, it may be a good hedge against inflation and economic uncertainty. For those looking for a short-term play, gold’s price movement may be more volatile.”

I hold Hoc for the very long term, and will continue to do so as I am not confidant enough to time the market and although I know from long experience that Hoc can easily halve or quarter again, it can also double. Hopefully we won’t have a full blown recession when silver tanks. Even if we do Hoc is now mainly in gold, and the hedges end, which will help if prices stay high but not be so great if they fall. Most of all I take comfort that Hoc has been relatively resilient through this autumns big silver fall, it should have fallen further but maybe it will or maybe it’s price builds in a recovering PM price . So there you have it, as I have been saying, down then up, and won’t sell into the down in case I miss the up, I am another silly FOMO maybe? And all of you? HNY all

Mike, I don’t think the company are very good at predicting the metal prices, but miners are often too much inside the trees to see the wood; they posted this three months ago from pgm elevator pitch “Conclusion – A rise in PGM prices across the board is fairly imminent. Ruthenium could be the initiator for other PGM prices to ignite.” Well that was sadly wrong as was their PGM predictions that Karo would be profitable. I have seen other miners get their hedging very wrong. All you can ask of miners is to be as efficient as possible n their mining and keep a strong balance sheet so they survive the inevitable price falls. At least Chromium is not in a secular bear market like PGM’s though the Chinese building crash could last a long time, as did Japan’s after their bubble burst so the future doesn’t look immediately great, but as long as they stop pouring money in the Karo hole we should be fine? imho of course

Gold Gnome, it is always stimulating to wake up and read your posts please keep them coming and let us hope first that you are right about gold’s trajectory and that this board gets busier with more of old Cey hands

A I have said I do not know which way gold will go, I hope very much it reverses and turns back up

B I have held a lot of Hoc and Centamin for a number of years, also a few Centamin and Uruguay Minersal now Orosur for over 20 year

C every now and then some start be behaving like schoolyard bullies on these boards. The dear Mr TiB les was driven off the Centamin board a couple of times. Why don’t you start posting more circumspectly about your reasoning for gold movements and we can see how accurate you are rather than criticising other holders. And good luck all. Let us hope the early Nov bottom of 2560 makes a double bottom now rather than on down. As said I haven’t a clue if we turn back up or continue down but at least Hoc itself is well placed. As a result of having so much in this basket and not training my share value overall has doubled since last nearl year making up for horrid losses since 2020 but I was stupid as usual and don’t take the money as I never do. Just sit and hold so when dead and my pension expires my partner has something to live on