Member Info for sadoldgit

Under the terms of the Licensing Agreement, an immediate upfront payment of US$0.5 million is due to CPF. An additional fee made up of up to US$1.0 million cash and 500,000 shares in the Licensee Company (the "Consideration Shares") may be payable upon the sooner of 12 months following the signing of the Licensing Agreement, or the event of the Licensee Company achieving certain commercial and material financing objectives. A further announcement regarding any future income, including any Consideration Shares which may be issued, will be made at the appropriate time.

Additional payments to the aggregate amount of up to US$289 million may become payable to CPF under the Licensing Agreement, subject to achievement of certain development, regulatory and commercial milestones which may or may not be achieved. The Licensee Company will also pay tiered high single digit royalties to CPF on the net sales of any product successfully developed and commercialised.

Note carefully the wording pertaining to payments.

An additional fee made up of up to US$1.0 million cash and 500,000 shares in the Licensee Company (the "Consideration Shares") may be payable upon the sooner of 12 months following the signing of the Licensing Agreement, or the event of the Licensee Company achieving certain commercial and material financing objectives. '

Note the use of the word 'may'.

It would be far more binding had the word 'shall'

being used, as is normally used in legal jargon.

The use of the word 'may' implies there is also a may not as an outcome.

However if we take a look at the 2nd paragraph.

'Additional payments to the aggregate amount of up to US$289 million may become payable to CPF under the Licensing Agreement, subject to achievement of certain development, regulatory and commercial milestones which may or may not be achieved.'

Here the term 'may or may not' be achieved.

The use of the term 'may or may not' in this paragraph would indicate a degree of uncertainty as to later, post stage development following the 12 month signing period.

By the very nature that 'may' be payable used in the first paragraph is followed by may or may not in the 2nd paragraph implies that a payment will be paid.

That is my understanding. No mention at all of payment not being made and the reasons thereof.

Merely handing back would not constitute a get out clause for the undisclosed Licensee.

Inability to pay due to unforeseen financial circumstances being an exception.

Welcome comments on this.

Regards

'

For what reasons Funnyguy would it just be kicked around?

For what purpose would this serve and of benefit to who?

Acrivon are now claiming 70% plus response with their CHK1 inhibitor which was initially discontinued due to safety concerns.

Regards

Spot on with that one HbD.

Regards

Https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-10777-w#:~:text=Gastrointestinal%20perforation%20(Table%203%20and%20Fig.%202,%E2%80%9Cdiverticular%20perforation%E2%80%9D%2C%20%E2%80%9Cintestinal%20perforation%E2%80%9D%20and%20%E2%80%9Cgastric%20perforation%E2%80%9D.

Janus kinase (JAK) inhibitors are a potential treatment for systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE). JAK inhibitors are small-molecule drugs that can block the JAK/STAT pathway, which is involved in the pathogenesis of SLE. They can: Suppress pro-inflammatory cytokines, Inhibit inflammatory immune cells, and Lead to SLE disease remission without corticosteroids.

Some clinical trials have shown that JAK inhibitors can be effective in treating SLE, particularly for musculoskeletal and mucocutaneous involvement. 'However, there are some safety concerns, including infections and thromboembolism. '

Here are some JAK inhibitors that have shown promise in treating SLE:

Tofacitinib

A JAK1/3 inhibitor that reduced cholesterol levels, improved vascular function, and decreased the type I interferon signature in SLE patients

Baricitinib

A JAK1/2 inhibitor that demonstrated significant improvements in lupus rashes and arthritis

'However, there are some safety concerns, including infections and thromboembolism. '

Goid evening Hbd. Thankgou for the irreconcilable yes it was Celgene.

With regards to your comment of knowing that a drug has failings you appear to misinterpret what l have put.

You state failings?

Depends on what we interpret as failings.

All drugs have downsides side effects and hence these are failings.

Morphine us given as a pain killer yet the down side is that it can be effective.

The taking of statins to reduce cholesterol can lead to an increased risk of type 2 diabetes

These downsides are acceptable.

However, when we look at SMKI's there are off target effects.

As you may well know Decravacitinib has them.

Early 1st generation Jak inhibitors whilst used for some life threatening or serious debilitating conditions are authorised for clinical use indeed some for emergency use and as an example Badicitunib a Jak 1 Jak2 kinase inhibitor.

This is a authorised for use in an emergency situation with those who are admitted to hospital with the effects of the Covid 19 cytokine storm.

Yes there are boxed warnings attached, but the authorisation is based on a risk v benefit. The benefit must outweigh the risk.

As far as l k ow without exception all Jak1 2 and 3 inhibitors have associated boxed warnings irrespective of selectivity.

Pharmas main objective is commercialisation ie basically money generating and hence, if they can market something they will even if they submit false information

Tske a look at GSK out if court settlements.

If the problem of adverse off target or failings as you have put does not stop big pharma then fir what purpose do we have regulatory bodies such as the NIH and the MHRA?

The point and l apologise for beating around the bush is that it is extremely unlikely that a boxed warning inhibitor would be granted authorisation for a condition such as systemic lupus erythematosus whilst their exists treatments that are used in the current standard of care.

This mainly involves steroids.

Kinase inhibitors come under the classification of NSAID's and hence have to prove that they exceed the current standard of care with regards to efficacy and safety.

1801 now going through long tern toxicology investigations.

The question here is are we likely to see one of the first if not the first selective Jak inhibitor without any boxed warnings.

Beprocitinib is Tyk2 Jak1 and has failings with increased creatine levels.

Are these increased creatinine levels a result of damage or can lead to damage such as the heart or liver?

Are Priovant going to run long term toxicology studies?

Therapfutic dose limiting studies maybe.

We have so far an impressive safety profile on the current data that has been analysed.

As for Covid19 we have a similar profile as Baricitinib but without the serious adverse events associated with Jak2 caused by h omodimerisation.

I would like to think thst 1801 sometime in the not too distant future will be available to treat conditions asso

I dare say low ball offers will be informal discussions and definitely batted away.

Offers from a while back without the full impact of our safety profile of no increase in creatinine levels unlike Beprocitinib and of course the interferon gamma inhibition that is lacking in Deucravacitinib.

I must apologise fot some incorrect information l had put regarding Beprocitinib

The figure of 4 billion a year was a projection of annual sales of Deucravacitinib from 2028 of 4 billion dollars per year.

BMS bought Amgen for 72 billion.

Not sure where Deucravacitinib will get a sales of 4 billion per annum.as certainly will not be in Ulcerative colitus.

Crohns disease is very similar so doubt will have much impact on that one.

Deucravacitinib l know is being trialled in SLE but according to Tim interferon gamma is a target that Deucravacitinib does not hit.

Now surely, large pharma must be looking at indications that pull the big bucks in.

Psoriasis is a very competitive market. We may well prove to be the best in this should we take safety profile into account.

I am developing an opinion that their is little doubt of the efficacy in Psoriasis but maybe SLE and other Indications including cytokine storm and the associated knock on effects that are coming to light.

One more thing l will point out is drug repurposing.

Now take Baricitinib. It has entered into clinical trial for SLE!

Let's take it that Baricitinib proves to have satisfactory efficacy.

Wow and to counteract that Bsricitinib has boxed warnings. Ot us an early inhibitor coming to the end of its useful and some may say useless life.

Who in their right mind is going to prescribe Baricitinib for SLE with adverse events associated with Jak2 ie EPO thrombosis and blood clots to start with.

Presentation was good by Tim.

Not sure how many observers in the room and what their calibre is but one thing for sure it will gain attention.

Money talks and so do people.

Regards

Depends what we mean by low ball.

A licence agreement for example 100 million up front with 1.5 billion in milestone.

Is that low ball ?

How do you then value the company on this as milestones technically are not guaranteed.

If we then take 250 to 300 million up front payment with l billion milestones which is not as much as the previous 100 plus 1500k, the Company would be valued more indicated by market cap and SP.

In effect it would be higher as still have 1802.

The point l am making here is having sufficient funding to enable phase 2 completion in 1802.

Tim put a value of 800 million that was well over 2 years ago on each compound.

You seem like a knowledgeable person with a name like Dick Puller let's have your idea of what you seriously believe the compounds to be worth.

If you have no idea then pretty pointless it appears to me what people would accept

For exams if we were at pre RF equity release market cap of around 100 million ie equate currently circa 80 per share, would people be content with selling at a pound?

Had we been financially bullet proof with a market cap of 3 pounds a share should we then take 2 pounds drop to reach a value of 1 pound a share that you seriously believe people will sell at?

The only way companies can gain another company on the cheap is to weaken its value.

Investment banking is involved and they are not much fifferent to corrupt pharmas.

You scratch my back l will scratch yours.

PH come aboard

50% drop in SP after a few days but recovered around 40%

Consolidation

Then RF equity release around 50% dilution and 90% drop in SP and market cap.

Those that bought in on this 10 to 30 odd p per share will most likely accept 1 pound a share.

Those that bought over a pound a share are not.

But of course if an offer is made for the company via hostile takeover of around 1 to 1.50 a share then a pharma can pick up a company that in its pipeline worth maybe 1 to 2 billion yet only pay a couple of hundred million for.

You yourself put a value on the company DP.

Regards

The only Indications as to worth of 1801 and 1802 was a good while back at 800 million each

However, this l think licensing agreement sums as was around the time of both inhibitors being progressed with the ficus on 1801.

Since then, Deucravacitinib was obtained by BMS at 4 billion dollars plus 2 billion in commercial milestones.

This was done as far as l know on phase2 completion of Psoriasis with post analysed data.

Deucravacitinib does not work in UC

Mediocre results in Psoriasis which most new inhibitors will now better with regards efficacy.

SLE or Systemic Lupus Erythematosis as it is known requires interferon gamma inhibition.

Again here it may prove some benefit as in Psoriasis but it does pretty much look like whatever this marvellous allosteric Tyk2 does we can certainly out perform easily.

Reminds me of the berk on here a while back on a comment l made on the benefits of dual inhibition over allosteric Tyk2.

Oh he said 'l can just see BMS saying and why didn't we think of that'.

The truth of the matter is they did not.

All about the money.

A safe kinase inhibitor is going to be in demand

The new all seeing all dancing over priced allosteric Tyk2 does not do what it says on the dude of the tin.

In an effort to produce an inhibitor that is safe and has commanded a high deal price.

BMS has obtained a drug that has no associated boxed warnings.

However the drug has not and is not likely to have satisfactory efficacy to treat several Indications

Thst is a fact!

Now, with an equivalent safety profile to Deucravacitinib with the added efficacy advantages over Deucravacitinib and superior safety profile over Beprocitinib, what value if you were Tim would you place on 1801?

We are not at end of phase 2 admittedly, but we have an inhibitor that so far is demonstrating far greater potential in terms of efficacy and disease Indications than all the rest of the current new generation jak inhibitors.

Long term safety needs confirmation and the testing to be done to GLP.

Once confirmed the lid comes off

At the same time that does not mean a deal of any sort cannot be done from now on, although l believe there are a few with a known low baller are waiting to see how the testing plans out and with an eye on Sareums cash runway

If a pharma can get something for next go nothing it will. It is an industry that has influence and corruption.

Just look at the billions paid in out of court settlements by the likes of GSK.

We sit with definitely a best in class inhibitor.

Our financial situation does to some extent leave us at the mercy of the corrupt greedy world of pharma.

I ramble on a bit as usual.

I do get peeved with our rate of progress

Regards

I dare say Leggster that after the trial data results and analysis of which looks extremely promising that things will develop.

Interferon gamma is a target in Ulcerative Colitus.

Tyk 2 aĺlosteric not inhibit.

Deucravacitinib failed in UC whereby the placebo gave better results than Deucravacitinib.

Yes we will be going back and working on that they stated

Interesting also in SLE and l believe the data we hbe so far will be pivotal in 1801 entering this indication

An area of high unmet need

So if we take it that in this indication SLE will need constant therapy then it will be of paramount importance to confirm satisfactory safety in long term toxicology studies as treatment would be potentially over a lifetime.

All looking good.

I don't think priovant with their Beprocitinib will be overly happy with our results.

Maybe a reason why Pfizer unloaded it on to them in the first place with the known off target unwanted effects.

Deucravacitinib we can better as indicated in the presentation.

Regards

They are not pushing best in class.

If you delve deeply into what Tim is saying it is undoubtedly best in class.

As Tim stated a few years back ' what we believe to be the optimum amount of Jak1 addition '

It has just pi55ed over Deucravacitinib and Beprocitinib.

Creatinine levels!

Interleukin gamma

Looks like the world will soon find out what we have?

Great Post.

Tim sounded good.

Impressive results.

That should put a pound on the Sp alone.

Thankyou for posting Desamax

Interesting developments.

Jak1 selective over Tyk2 here.

Looks to be a better result than Deucravacitinib.

Still Tyk2 only without the benefit of dual inhibition.

It is a competitive market so would ask at the AGM what other Indications if not SLE and AD are sareum looking to trial 1801 in.

As long as our long term toxicology studies progress well all should be fine.

30 times maximum tolerated dose with no observed adverse events.

True we are looking at a longer time period here.

Regards

Large amount of shares been added over past few months.

Takes time to settle down and end up on hands of investors creating a more stable share price.

I continue to add albeit in small amounts at the moment. Very close buy and sell price which is good to see. Indicative of less volatality.

Regards

Recent report 22nd Nov 24.

It may very well be that treatments are more effective in Asian people.

There is less prevalence.

Theoretically accepted that dual inhibition of Ty2 Jak1 should give greater efficacy than Tyk 2 alone.

Chinese quality control very poor at the best!

'Deucravacitinib, a TYK2 inhibitor, shows superior efficacy over apremilast in achieving PASI 75 and PASI 90 responses in Asian populations.

Systematic literature reviews and network meta-analyses highlight deucravacitinib's comparable efficacy to TNF, IL-12/23, and IL-17 inhibitors.

Deucravacitinib offers a novel oral treatment option for psoriasis, combining convenience with efficacy similar to biologics.

Limitations in trial size, subgroup analyses, and long-term data necessitate further research to validate long-term outcomes and real-world effectiveness'

Funny guy l don't have a trading margin.

I did take advantage but not fully of the shares l bought at 0.22p to 0.5 p and sold around 2.5 million at between 7 and 9.2p. True l have bought back from around 6p old money to 10p a share at current price.

You are a trader and hence have a completely different outlook to investing than l do.

I am here to on licence or buyout.

Why are you here funnyguy?

Your 5 to 10 % trades?

The buy and sell shown spread price is somewhT different in reality to actual trade price so unlikely to make much from trading unless playing at 100k plus a time.

Take a look at AIM pharma sector as a whole and a similar pattern exists across nearly all small AIM companies.

I see Sareum in good state at the moment even with the current financial climate and with world war 3 looming dangerously closer day by day.

Can't see that happening myself but maybe wrong. That would have a negative impact on the SP if that starts!

However,put a value on SDC1801 with good long term toxicity data. Divide it by the number of shares in circulation and that will give you an expected ball park figure SP price.

A positive outlook whilst not conducive to giving 100% certainty of success, l find nonetheless more beneficial than concentrating on the negatives or the current SP which l believe is firmly undervalued and what has gone wrong in the past is highly unlikely to be repeated in the future.

Regards

Is this indicative of pharmaceuticals concerns and hence why 1801cis going through further toxicology studies with knock on effect to 1802?

'While most side effects from immunotherapy are manageable, some can be severe and potentially life-threatening. Severe immunotherapy side effects include: Inflammation-Related Issues: Such as myocarditis (heart inflammation), pneumonitis (lung inflammation), and hepatitis (liver inflammation).

What exactly do you expect Sareum to do, release up dates or to be more precise, pointless information out of thin air like do?

I know it is not SRA737 but Acrivons bought prexasertib but the following latest results look impressive from the early ORR's of around 20%

Positive clinical data with confirmed overall response rate (ORR) = 62.5% (95% CI, 30.4-86.5) and prospective ACR-368 OncoSignature patient selection (p = 0.009) from ongoing ACR-368 registrational-intent Phase 2b endometrial cancer study presented at ESMO

– Endometrial cancer, a tumor type identified by AP3 as particularly sensitive to ACR-368 treatment, represents the first potential approval opportunity for ACR-368, in second line, with options to move into the front-line setting being evaluated

Clearly the Oncosignature imput has given very credible selectivity and identification of those who can potentially benefit most from Chk1 inhibitors.

It would be very interesting to see just how much 737 has progressed.

They could go for phase 3 with LDG set up,

They may have done which Acrivon have done and explored other areas of unmet need.

Regards