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"Matt’s game is still being played out and as yet I am not sure how it ends?" Very true Rock8. Until the Circular comes out we can't know for sure.

The biggest disappointment for me so far is that MM seems to have no intention of steping away from RemainCo. I had hoped that he would leave us alone once he got Ingenuity separated from the Group but that doesn't seem to be how it's going to play out. It's a pity because that is the one thing that would bring real value to RemainCo.

None of us really know how this is going to play out. There are optimists and pessimists on this board, each is entitled to their own view. I'm in the latter category in the short term but the former thereafter. My take is similar to that of Jedclampit. I think MM is being bought off with Ingenuity.

Whatever the outcome, it's clear that MM wants to keep control of something. It's in his nature. Maybe he sees Ingenuity as his new baby? For that he must hold 51% and not be overly-burdoned with debt, a consistent line in the sand for him, and the reason he rejected Apollo.

For securing Ingenuity he now seems willing (or is being 'encouraged') to let go of Nutrition and Beauty. Both can stand on their own two feet, or could stay together as a slimmed-down THG, without the 'shackles' of Ingenuity (and some would say MM himself) to hold them back. In either case both should become successful, highly profitable companies in their own right. That's the bit I'm optimistic about over the longer term. It's how we get there that concerns me.

MM will want Ingenuity for the right price, and his 'right' may well differ significantly from what some of us here think. Is this the price we PIs will be asked to pay to get MM to relinquish control of the THG group? And is it a price worth paying? Whatever that price may be, it's not going to please everyone. It never does.

Nutrition and Beauty have propped up Ingenuity for years, to the extent that it is nearing critical mass. So why now? That is the question I keep asking myself, and the main reason for my pessimism in the short term. It just seems a bit premature. Would it not be better to hold on to Ingenuity for a few more years until it comes good? After all, isn't that what they have been telling us will happen for the last couple of years, while we've watched it suck the lifeblood out of the other Divisions? Don't just do something, stand there, as Ronald Regan once famously said. Maybe that would be a better strategy than what is being proposed now?

Don't get me wrong, something does need to be done. Some shareholders are becoming restless and want change, but is this the best way to go about it? Yes, maybe we can all roll over into the new 'Ingenuity PLC' and preserve our positions - maybe. However, it's often the case that new money gets a better deal than the old, how much better being determined by the strength of the company at the time. Well Ingenuity will be in a much better bargaining position as a profitable Division in a few years time than it is as an unprofitable one now, so why the rush to separate it out? To me it just doesn't stack up.

I'm probably wrong on this, and of course it might work out well for everyone in the end. The announcement looked rather half-baked on the webcast so anything, or nothing, could be possible. With a bit of luck Apollo or some other PE outfit will come and take the lot, and we won't need to worry about it any more. Only time will tell what comes

I mentioned something similar last week and got short shrift for it. It's something I've seen before as well, so I'm sceptical of what's going on here. Still holding for now but I haven't taken this 'opportunity' to top up just yet. I'll see what the elusive circular has to say before making my next move.

Incidentally, Bloomberg were reporting yesterday the Applied Nutrition want to get their IOP done and dusted bofre the Budget at the end of October, according to anonymous sources. Will be interesting to see how that playes out.

No two situations are identical, it's the final outcome of each where the similarities exist, KBYK. At least that's my belief.

THG is not SDRY, that's for sure. But JD stole that company (or what was left of it) from its PIs, many of whom were ultra-loyal and had stuck with him for years. That's not me by the way. I took a short term punt and lost on it. But I really feel for those that did. They were right royally shafted imho.

GGP on the other hand is a LT holding of mine. Fortunatly my average is low enough and I should be able to benfit from what happened last week over time. But the recent events were stacked highly in favour of the new investors, much to the detriment of LTH's that had kept GGP afloat for a decade or more. Just a small fractional increase of shares made available to existing PIs would have allowed them to more equitably take part in the Offer, but they were denied that opportunity. Another kick in the proverbials for LTHs.

I hope I'm wrong but that 'could' be happening to THG. Someone here (?) posted earlier today that it's all about trust. After a couple of years in THG all my trust has gone unfortunately. I'll listen the the conf call later and try to gauge if that lack of trust is justified. If it is then I'll move on and others on here won't have to listen to any more of my ngeativity in this board.

Good luck with whatever you decide is best for you.

SDRY, GGP are recent examples.

It didn't happen at 39p because it wasn't ready then. Now that it is, off it will go. It's who will reap the benfit of that move that's worrying me.

That's not emotions speaking, that's the reality of the situation, KBYK.

Seems to me the only corruption going on here is by THG BoD and the 65% Club.

Call me cynical but to me it looks like Ingenuity is going to be taken from us, the 35% that MM dispises so much, probably at a knockdown price, for their benfit only. God knows how much of our money has gone into keeping it afloat over the last couple of years.

Speculation on my part? Absolutely. And I really hope I am wrong on this for all of our sakes. But I have seen it too many times before, and why would it be any different this time?

Have just spoken to II.

The £13669.30 is the amount allocated to shares and the remaining £6K or so has been credited back to my account.

It works out just over 68% allocation.

Thanks mercedesman.

Obviously not what I wanted to hear. That implies the Offer was more than 30 times oversubscribed, and instead of £20K worth of shares I will only get about £656 worth. Gordon Bennett!

I applied for £20K in the Retail Offer. My II account is now showing 13669.3 shares, at £1.00 each, a total of £13666.30. Not sure what that means. Is it £13,669.30 worth of shares at 4.8p each, or is it 13,669.3 shares? I hope it's the former! That would imply the offer is scaled back by just under a third.

Thanks Nomlas.

I've been digging through the document.

On page 24 it explains the amount stockpiled, just over 6Mt, and the amount to be processed in the initial 15 months, just shy of 22Mt, and the AISC is for processing all of this ore.

Cheers.

I admit to not having read all the 570-odd pages either but a serious question all the same.

Is the AISC of US$1454/oz for Telfor the current running rate i.e. from in the ground to pumping out shiny new 1oz gold ingots? Just a thought, the stockpiled ore is already at the processing plant, so no digging or transporting required.

That'll have a significant impact on the AISC for the stockpile, or has it already been taken into account?

Cheers.

Hear, hear Chuffchuff!

At least he was allowed to take part in it, Unimaginative.

The Retail Offer amount is just scraps off the kitchen table, and it wasn't even reserved solely for existing shareholders, some of whom have been here a long time. I think I have a right to be agrieved under the circumstances.

Cheers.

...that the Retail Offeer would have closed by now.

Either the take-up is low or they are letting it run until the end of today and will peg back any over-subscription.

Not good for us PIs. I have loaded up in the Offer but have no idea how many shares I will receive. Would have been much better run on a first-come-first-served basis.

So, do I buy more now on the open market and re-ballance (if necessary) when the Offer is closed, or sit on my hands?

Being a PI can be frustrating at times!

Hi FR.Jack,

I think that's more to do with AML than the share consolidation per se. As I said, all else being equal.

Agree about the penny shares though. In fact GGP needs a higher SP to get into the ASX (A$0.2 I think?) so unless GGP takes off from here there will be consolidation withing the next 6 months for sure.

I don't get the point made earlier (by ?) that the number of shares affacts the dividend distribution. The number of shares is not relevant, it's the proportion of the Company that you hold that determines the overall dividend you receive.

Cheers.

what's all this ****** about share consolidation? some on here think it's going to increase the sp and they will make money fromm it directly - well it will but they won't. others seem to think they are somehow going to get diluted by it and they will lose money - they won't and they won't.

all else being equal you will simply end up with less shares of a higher sp, but you proportional holding in ggp will remain the same - you lose nothing and gain nothing from it.

yes, there are other factors to consider, but as i said, all else being equal you will neither gain nor lose.

from some of the comments on here some seem not to understand that.

If you haven't jumped already you've missed the boat.

Don't worry Tichtich, I'm sure the Labour government will help you out. There will be plenty of buying opportunities before too long, unfortunately :-(

That 8.5+% yield looks very attractive for those sitting with an average SP somewhere near it is today, and interest rates at 5.25%. Imagine what it's going to look like when interest rates fall to 3.5% or so, which I expect them to do over the next year to 18 months. For that differential to hold, barring a cut in dividend of course, the SP should rise. And if it doesn't I'll buy more shares. That's my rationale for buying into LGEN recently.