Member Info for P119

Thanks

Before anyone jumps up and down I am trying to understand something and what if shorters go bust. Incidentally no one should feel embarassed trying to be helpful to a question even if later it turns out maybe a shorter's plant. Well done JCL yesterday for trying to help.

A post a day or so ago said a share is borrowed then sold. In turn bought . The broker who holds on behalf of their client lends it to a shorter who sells. It is bought again. The net result is seems to me is a share has been created.

Look at it another way that may make better sense. A Co has 1m shares in issue. Co A holds all in their Investment Fund. They lend and the shorter sells. I buy them. There are now two of us who appear to own the same shares. If my broker then lent my shares round we go again and more shares are 'created'. In the end will all come out in the wash but the mkt has more shares held than really exist? Pfc has 522m shares but 11.49% are shorted and are in the lenders portfolio and the new buyers so count twice. Ignoring being lent again there are approx now 582m shares if you add up everyone's holding. Any thoughts please. Am I just being very dim. Keep your reply polite please!

Also if a shorter goes bust and cannot return all the shares borrowed does the lender pick up the cost/loss. If so some lenders one might suggest are being very irresponsible?

The short was on Thursday

I seem to be the only one saying to StockNor sorry you missed out this time but at the sametime as am long pleased with the current price action.

We are all trying to make a profit or a living and gloating in either direction think is unfortunate. I dislike commercial shorting where they are playing with someone else's money but when it's your own not alot different than selling a stock, hoping it falls to buy back. Feel sure many of us do now and again.

On the other hand those late to the party must think the shorters have done them a favour to enable getting in cheap or others like me being able to reduce their stock average considerably.

Good luck to all and StockNor been an interesting journey reading your posts from the other point of view.

JC well said. The MM's are not a charity

Mary I think you are spot on unless it happens very quickly when we will see hopefully a large spike in price to catch up

Thanks. As I said do not disagree with you. It is just odd and had assumed the broker had lumped in o/s orders.

My understanding is limited to the brief explanations on the net.

Thanks. I do not disagree for 16.35data. But how come during the auctions around 8.15 am this week got what I asked for and not for the only time. No buys were individually posted at the struck price. Just the total.

The UT is shown in red as the bias of trades at the auction is for sells. To buy you can only do it if their are sells. Hence clearing o/s uncompleted trades. Sometimes during volatile activity when upon opening going to auction may occur as this week and last a useful trick is to place an order on a speculative low amount. Eg a few days ago getting back at under 30p looked impossible. But an order placed at 30p secured 29p at auction. You need alot of luck but comes off now and again.

Helikon shorting is a mystery to me but the post that says they must have inside knowledge feel is nonsense. How many times have we been subjected to allsorts of unfounded accusations. I recall the rise to 87p in Aug. That was considered as someone knowing something. Then the flurry of rubbish we have been subjected to of late. Those responsible are IMO no better than than the infamous three. It plays into the shorters hands. Increases the fear factor. A view is fine but many verge on accusations.

I have no idea why shorting has continued by Hel. but have always believed part of the buy back process to close positions is to further sell, reduce the price then buy back what you recently sold at a profit this time and buy as many extra shares as possible at the lower price. The only problem with this argument as I see it is it needs considerable time to pull off. From the majority of posted views this time luxury is likely to be very short especially as the shares to buy back is considerable. It will be fascinating how this resolves itself. Good luck to all holders.

Cheshirelad thanks. A good summary post. A happy New Year to you

To all holders long or short term good luck in 2024. Thanks to you all, it has been a pleasure to read your posts, well most as finally after 6 years started to filter a few in November. Has helped my sanity since no end. One thing reading your views those that give a reasoned opinion at times tend to follow you even if differs from mine helps a better balanced viewpoint. One thing the past few weeks has shown, and was personally reminded of the other day, shorters can sniff out the rogues, they can also get it wrong thankfully for us here and can give us great buying opportunities. With all the latest news what an opportunity still exists. Happy New Year to all.

Clungeseeker a good post. I agree. This is what they do so well. Trade their way out. I hate shorting, it should be banned. The question few ask is where do all the lent shares come from? Who would lend out shares knowing their holding it likely to reduce in value. Either they are ignorant of the effect of their actions, don't care because the extra fees feel is worth it if they are looking long term or as has been mentioned in the past it's your holdings being lent out by your 'broker'. They don't care what happens. They hold the shares on your behalf earn trading fees plus earn extra at our expense. The only time this would back fire is if we all sold and they have lent out our shares and need to sell themselves. A bit like a bank's liquidity. If we all wanted our money their reserves would not be sufficient as happened to some in 2008.This is the area I get most hot under the collar about. I am not clued up like many of you so please have I got it right?

With 50m or so to buy back it will not happen overnight. IMO they will in addition to plain buying try and trade and sell on rises and buy more on the way down to help mitigate either a loss or reduced expected profit. This may take a month or two. Any views?

Sadly Johnychainlockers 15.42 post is probably the closest to the truth today and during the past few weeks. Roll on 20th. Fingers crossed for better news. Good luck all.

After my first post got me filtered by one sensitive soul for suggesting an earlier rise was the shorters allowing to rise to make more on their next short sale, today think this will be driven higher for other reasons. I had wondered adding to bid speculation apart from the Middle East, if Wood or Hunting? Or as was suggested when the current CEO was announced his previous employer. It was speculated at the time to watch this space. Any thoughts?

JokerDc thanks for your comment. Sorry had not intended to be spreading doom and gloom. I agree but the problem is you need to start somewhere. I just think the momentum of views about the shorters being squeezed is overdone at present. I suppose we all believe what we want to.

My first ever post. Been a holder since the day the sfo investigation was announced. Av down recently now 81p.

The crowing this afternoon of a short squeeze I think is misplaced. The shorters again shorted yesterday and looks like at the UT auction today. Why? My take is they think a substantial equity dilution is on the way. I hope they are wrong.

They ramp the price, a classic move this late pm then short. It's not a squeeze. It's a trap. These shorters are not daft. If you think so I advise caution. Good luck to you all. I sincerely hope they are wrong if not we have more pain to endure IMO