Member Info for johnpwh

I respect the huge effort that you have made Dee. I genuinely mean that despite my next paragraph.
Accepting is certainty. To stay invested individuals must comprehend that they are entering into a mind games with GF, a bluffing match, a poker game. It is no longer investing, its gambling, you simply do not know how it will turn out. You may make a substantial amount, if so I will be pleased for you. You may not. Same applies to the 3.15 at Newmarket. I admit would have a small dabble, but wouldn't commit my pension or anything like it.
Good luck on whatever decision individuals make.

No idea Foz. Think my mind has wandered off now. I'm getting excited about Father Christmas. Or maybe its the absinthe

Don't think these nominee accounts are ever efficient. As you lot have heard me mention I am with iWeb, and generally reinvest divis. I very occasionally change settings to avoid auto reinvest, such as when an AIM tiddler recently paid a very large special divi. I know I tend to overthink things, but my logic was that people auto-reinvesting would temporarily drive the SP up so might mean poor price. For once I was right, took cash and bought in the market a couple of days later.
The BP (and you don't get much bigger than that) divi was paid (in theory) a few days back. Took over 2 days to be credited as cash then reinvested in further BP shares, So I'm not holding my breath on seeing my ZNWD shares any time soon.....
In the meantime BCN is unchanged across the xd 'period'. Don't understand it, and to be honest have lost interest to the extent that I struggle to be bothered now!

BCNs S/H will reduce to what Ganfeng held prior to the share offer - if BCN held 30% of ZNWD, and Ganfeng held 28.5% of BCN (I think that is correct) prior to the current GF/BCN offer then that means that after tomorrow there is only about 8.55% of ZNWD shares held by BCN. Correct my maths if I'm wrong.
Secker, and whoever else from BCN is on the ZNWD board, were presumably only there due to the magnitude of the BCN holding. With the BCN holding drastically reduced will we not see the exit of Secker and co. from ZNWDs board? (fingers and toes crossed)

Observer
if its institutions, they may be restricted in what classes of investments they can hold, and unquoted shares may be on their wont touch with a barge pole list. So they may be forced to accept. That's just an opinion
triki
Couldn't agree more. If GF get 75% and delist I would have thought its happy days for them. With 50% of the project via the JV and 75% of BCN they own, directly or indirectly 87.5% of the project. When BCN is private they can do pretty much what they like with 75% of the voting shares, and can run it with an aim to make zero profit to feed their lithium needs at cost without having to commit any more capital to buy out the minority shareholding. Again just in my opinion.
At the risk of you lot sticking pins in my effigy I think the GF board have played and absolute blinder and their shareholders must be well pleased. The polar opposite of what Secker and co have done for BCN shareholders

Hi triki
My understanding is that under a trust, as with nominees arrangements like this, the PI is called a beneficial owner and the broker is called the legal owner (as it is their name that appears on the share register, not the PIs). If the PI advises the legal owner of his understanding about conditions relevant to his beneficial shareholding, and it contradicts what the legal shareholder understands then it is incumbent on the legal shareholder to ascertain the truth. Otherwise they are being negligent, because the beneficial shareholder is powerless to perform the tasks that the legal shareholder can (in this case communicate acceptance of the offer to GFs agents). If they don't and the beneficial shareholder suffers financially (or otherwise) then the beneficial owner can take the legal shareholder to the Ombudsman for compensation for financial loss. As indeed a certain johnpwh did successfully with Barclays.....

Hi DJ
Hope all's good with you.
I would argue one point of your logic re our bullishness (or lack of) in PoG.
Joe Public isn't really feeling the pinch, at least not yet. Over our side of the pond, and I believe yours, Joe has found himself with more disposable cash than he was expecting a couple of years back due to saving on commuting, restaurant meals, holidays etc. With low interest rates, and now high inflation, bank deposits don't look attractive. Assets, from classic cars to real estate to antiques have boomed. I'm not suggesting demand for precious metals in the form of jewellery is being snapped up but gold bullion may look attractive - they always say that gold is a safe haven in times of inflation Combine that with low interest rates then the lack of income from holding gold assumes less importance.
Doesn't change my view that $3000, or even $2500 gold in the near future is unlikely. However end at c.$1800 AAU is generating decent profit relative to its Market Cap

Sorry, typo.
I think the salient point is that they are not being asked to give advice
Sorry tomcat, our posts crossed

Yes you do triki. I think the salient point is not that they are not being asked to give advice. Only they, and not Livingthedream, can enact his acceptance for shares that they hold for him in Trust. If their understanding is flawed, which I think we believe to be the case, then their inability to comprehend this situation could lead to actual loss. As a broker they may be expected to understand the situation as that is their business.

Living
You are right to be concerned, There are sufficient people still unhappy for the final tally to be less than 90%. To be honest I suspect that wont happen as people are concerned about being caught in the >75%, <90% no mans land which potentially traps them in an unquoted company (and is a big problem for ISA holders), but could happen.
My point really is that HL could stop you exercising acceptance and leave you in that position. Since it is HL that must exercise on your behalf, you cannot do it independently for a nominee account as far as I am aware, then I was suggesting that you inform them that you will seek compensation if you end up financially compromised by their actions. Make sure that is by Email, web chat (which you get a transcript of) or on a recorded conversation.
Once again the total confusion surrounding every aspect of this takeover astounds me. Never seen anything like this.

What's going on? Just come in and looked at the SP

Only just come back, confused by the SP today. Did BCN go xd at market open or market close?

Living
I guess you realise from the way you write that you realise HL is wrong? I think you should make it clear that you will hold them responsible if they give you bad advice on this

tomcat
Assuming you are right of course I take my hat off to you. Your command of the ins an outs of this process far exceeds mine.
Still all seems unnecessarily complicated to most of us. Are you accepting now (you don't have to tell me but I'm just interested)?
ps I don't wear a hat, but you know what I mean.

Bob
First entered my world about 10 years ago when a good friend of mine (who hated business speak as much as me) entered it into a meeting full of corporate suits. It was priceless to see their faces drop. As I age it is a great word to describe my recall and thought processes

dave
I would be thinking much the same as you regarding getting locked in, but others may give alternate opinions which hopefully they will express.
Personally it wouldn't normally concern me having an (modest in relation to my total net worth) investment in an unlisted Company with the massive prospects of BCN. However it would worry me about GFs attitude towards BCN - they are not acquiring shares in BCN as a company to (directly) generate profits - ie this isn't, as such, an investment . They primarily want the product in the mine, that's what this is all about - I am no expert in the protections given to minority shareholders, but I would be worried that the Sonora production would have a single customer ie GF. Of course the deal to pass Mexican Anti Trust may cover that off. But guess what......WE DONT KNOW BECAUSE WE HAVENT BEEN TOLD..
I really must watch my blood pressure. Think I'll have a cuppa.

The can be no positive spin put on this RNS. Just look at the timing, an RNS sneaked out at 6.30pm on a Friday evening. What does that tell you? From 4 massively promising fields (I ignore Whirlwind etc.) HUR are basically down to one wet one.
Production is declining slowly but surely. Bubble formation is expected early next year, in fact they brought the estimated date forward in the operational update before last. So then production dips further and costs per barrel increase.
How can there be sufficient funds to cover bonds when GPA have called for ringfenced funds to cover decommissioning (in other words GPA want funds there because they think the company may not be around), Bluewater want the same before they continue to use the AM. Plus you will still need working capital, a company can't just drain the bank account to zero.
Why will other bondholders settle at a discount before maturity, especially the relatively modest discount applied recently? For only one reason, which is that they fear a far larger discount on maturity next summer - which would mean that the equity holders would be wiped out at the same time as they are lower in the pecking order. The Bondholders know their strength, and with recent operational updates I wouldn't bank on them extending the maturity date.
The only positive I can see here is that CA have added. Be nice if they made a statement as to why.
There is no cash to drill another well, and the one you have is dying. And still people put a positive spin on it. Smell the coffee while this is 4p

What a shambles this is, To use my favourite 2021 word again, obfuscation to the very end. How can you have a decision process (I would have said a democratic process but that is strictly applicable for politics) involving thousands of voters when the vast majority of them don't understand fully what they are voting for, what the timetable is, how that vote will affect the liquidity if their assets etc etc? And that is amongst people who are interested enough to post here so god help the poor buggers who don't have the means to try to seek clarification amongst interested peers.
As already related here, after voting I considered buying back some shares I had disposed of post September. It was unclear if I could make a second vote in respect of those 'new' shares - the broker waffled and covered their backs (no surprise), so I contacted the Link people (see RNSs) who are supposed to help the confused and bewildered like me - and after 45 minutes on the phone they basically apologised and said 'sorry me old mate we cant find out'.
This shouldn't have been like this. I'm convinced that the confusion was part of the plan to get shareholders to give up. After investing/gambling in equities since before Mrs Thatch and her privatisation I honestly have never seen anything quite like this. Rant over, though I reserve the right to have a Sunday rant if I feel so inclined....

Yes Bob, understand that, and fully understand the nature of the distribution as a dividend.
That is interesting in the UK as i think with respect to taxation the ZNWD shares will be taxed as income because they are a dividend, presumably at their value at market open on 22nd. For future Capital Gains the same share price would be used as the acquisition cost. So no need to split the BCN acquisition cost between the 2 holdings which would have been true if the ZNWD shares were part of the offer.
There seems to have been much confusion here with brokers - the offer form I had from my broker phrased the ZNWD distribution as part of the offer - I would cut and paste it here but it disappeared off their website when I accepted it.
I know you have caused a bit of upset with some of your comments, but much of what you posted has been useful - in particular the spot on 15th about the Mexican meeting on 16th, played a blinder there.

Matthew it wont instantly delist at 75%, GF will need to make an application to the Stock Exchange.
So xd is 6pm tonight and the shares sold from Monday will not have the ZNWD distribution attached. So I'd guess the SP will drop to 64 ish Monday? Or will it - what does a buyer next Monday morning get? Not the ZNWD shares as BCN will be xd. Can buyers from next Monday accept the offer even though the offer included the ZNWD distribution which they wont be entitled to? Confused and bewildered