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K, well they did buy back a whole load of shares a few years ago. I want to say about 27% of the shares in issue (including a huge chunk off a distressed-sale Neil Woodford!). The problem with that is, if they keep doing it, the fund basically gets smaller and smaller assuming it continues to trade at a discount to NAV.
Perhaps the VSL boys will be smart and look to buy back shares at a 20%+ discount to NAV with funds as they mature rather than paying out the funds. It is a way of manipulating the shares and price that could make them (and us) a few extra quid.
Overall, I would be sad to see VSL go.
Does anyone invest through Hargreaves Lansdown and/or HSBC Invest Direct? I am minded to ask them to vote against the wind-down.....
Guitarsolo
Morning VSLers.
I am starting to become increasingly worried that VSL will push ahead with its proposed wind down simply because Staude Capital et al have pished them off and the fund, whilst nice, is small potatoes for Victory Capital.
When Staude made it's proposal for the 25% return at NAV it was a different financial world. Lenders were stable, VSL's equity investments were relatively predictable etc. Now they are not. We have had three mid-sized banks go bust or need rescuing and of course Credit Suisse. Eyes are now on Deutsche Bank.
VSL's equity investments in fintech would not realise anything like what they would have done 12 months ago. If the wind down happens in this kind of environment it will be miles away from "realising shareholder value". We will have ended up shooting the cash cow (8pps) and selling the equity investments for cents on the dollar of what they could realise if we chose the moment to sell them rather than have a forced timetable. Staude's intervention has been very bad for shareholders.
I would really like to hear that VSL suspend the wind down until the environment is better suited to it (at least). Sadly, I suspect the fund isn't worth that hassle.
What do others think? I suspect most of us with hold through nominee accounts, should we be mobilising our voices?
Guitarsolo
Hello SD, I hold a couple of REITs across different ISAs and don't pay any income tax on the dividends (paid as a PID). Interestingly though, Hargreaves Lansdown pay the full dividend amount (e.g. the last 3.5p in January) in one go, but the same dividend in HSBC usually arrives in two parts (which I think is 80/20). I presume this is to do with the dividend/PID being taxable as income but then, because it is in an ISA, there is a second credit to the ISA's cash.
But in both cases I ultimately receive the whole dividend, tax free.
Hope this helps.
Guitarsolo
There are two explanations that spring to mind:
(i) SCE are about to release bad news, mostly likely about production issues, which would leave no doubt there is a leaky ship that the company needs to address quickly.
(ii) The global market sell off (mostly in financials) is causing some holders to need to raise money quickly, so they sell here knowing this is a 5 year+ play, hoping to get back in later.
Of course, I hope it is (ii)!! Just annoyed really because if I had held off a couple of hours I could have bought more which would have taken me to a nice round number of shares in this account! That is what annoys me! OCD......
But joking aside, the slide here requires some explanation. Anyone?
Guitarsolo
I literally bought some at 33.74 a couple of hours ago!
Afternoon Damien,
Just checking in here (although currently not a holder) and I see there have been a few developments! NAV is about where it was when I bowed out in December (c.EUR 14.5) but they have ditched the F/X hedging! Good! Cash flow dependecy is more important (imo) than "smoothing" out the NAV (which it didn't do either!). No sign of contrition by management you say? Huh, doesn't surprise me. That was what p***** me off more than anything else, the fact they thought they should play F/X games with my dividend and then not say sorry when they ******ed it up.
Did I bow out too soon PCPunter? Well, the share price is about where I left it (I know it has recently been higher), but I invested the money in MNG which is also about where I bought, but I've earned about 7% in dividends since. So, I'm happy enough with that.
I did well enough out of PEY between 2015-2022 and am pleased to see they've reinstated the dividend. They aren't bad at picking investments and have a nice geographical spread. Without the F/X risk (unnecessary imo) the NAV should do OK from now on.
I will keep an eye on it and would buy again now that the F/X risk has gone and at least one of the execs responsible has gone. I'll probably wait to see having funds available coincides with a short term mis-valuation by the market.
Glad to see PEY is on a better path!
GLA
Guitarsolo
Simon, I have the same problem with HL! Why do we need to acknowledge a new KID if we already have to be a shareholder in the first place? Surely all it is going to provide is a few changed numbers after the capital return. Infuriating!
88: "how else can they reduce/contain inflation"?
I've often wondered why interest rates are seen as the only tool to combat inflation. All it does is take money off borrowers and give profits to banks. After all, who likes a banker?!
If taxes were raised it would likewise take money out of the economy, reduce demand and reduce inflation. If that money was put aside and ringfenced it could then be used to pay for tax cuts when the economy required stimulating. A zero sum cost/benefit and would allow interest rates to remain more stable (another benefit). Of course, it would require politicians to keep their filthy mitts off the money. Depending on which tax you chose (and at what level) you could protect the poor from it but also ensure it was spread across the wealthier rather than just those who have borrowed.
MM, my point is nothing more than you want Linekar to be "impartial" but don't seem to make the same requirement of multiple others in very influential roles within the BBC who are pro-Conservatives.
What's good for the goose......
Congrats Hardup! It's a funny old world, isn't it? If you're happy to live with FOMO then banking a profit and taking advantage of situations like today is good trading. Unfortunately, I invest for the senior generation of the family and so have to stick to what is reliable rather than dip in and out. But well done to you.
GS
There you are Thronegames, courtesy of a bank in Silicon Valley you get your chance to reenter at under 1980p!
It's a funny old world.
Guitarsolo
If building capacity is like rolling a boulder up a hill, it should be a good ride once at the top!
I guess women are less likely to want to visit a forum to tell you how big their portfolio is.
Actually Ace, CHaigh's original post was specifically about cum or ex dividend and therefore tax implications have a direct effect on the decision. Your "toss a coin" does not as the share price will move however it was going to move anyway, just amplified by the share going ex-dividend. We can try to be helpful towards each other, or be grumpy old men about things.
Guitarsolo
CHaigh,
I will try to be more helpful than AoC, but will only try because the answer is, "it depends"!
- Do you have any tax implications if you are selling? Do you have a capital gain that is taxable? Do you have to pay income tax on the dividends? If so, at what rate? Basically, go for whatever has the lowest tax bill.
- What are your timeframes here?
If you're trying to buy/sell and dip in/out and this sort of thing is causing confusion, I would say you probably want a much clearer strategy.
Not intended as advice! Good luck!
Guitarsolo
Nomlungo, I believe you are right. Why? There are two irrepressible forces....Mother Nature and Mathematics. They are working in tandem against the Brexit vote, so it is really just a matter of time.
I've said from the start that Brexit's only chance of survival would be to quickly deliver successes. You're allowing 15 years, it may not be that long! Whilst yesterday's news appears to be a distinct improvement, it is still only damage limitation and returning some of the things we used to have anyway.
Hi Thrones,
It's not exactly scientific, but I see the "summer months" (aka March to Sept) as the time when IMB will experience share price growth simply because in the other months (Oct-Feb) it is paying out c.100p on its income over 6-months. This is most of the income over the period. I know it doesn't work that way (!), but I would expect the share price to increase from here to c.£21/£22 a share by September and then to hold steady.
Keep paying down debt. Keep finding those economies. Keep increasing market share (remember, we don't smoke much here but the rest of the world does), Keep looking for those next generation opportunities!
Get debt down to zero. Get earnings to 300ps. It's a cash cow then.
Guitarsolo
OK, I've come to join the party! Initial purchase of 15k shares. Had to do it through a Hargreaves Lansdown account as HSBC get themselves into a right twist with anything they think is "technical".
Sadly not, damn it! I'm waiting on a few dividends to arrive at the end of the month and was trying to avoid selling something to buy here. I tend to identify a company I like and then build a shareholding over the long term.
But this still looks a good investment so I'm not put off at all (in fact the opposite). Perhaps there will be a chance to buy on a pull back.....
Many thanks SimonM for your response, that is most helpful.
Regards
GS