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Started: ripley94, 13 Oct 2023 16:42
Last post: ripley94, 13 Oct 2023 16:42
On ( D )
Started: olli-street, 10 Nov 2019 19:48
Last post: Craigl, 30 Jun 2022 16:37
1
On liquidation/admin all assets are sold to other parties in order to pay creditors
that includes intangibles like goodwill/brands, etc.
BTW - here goes that revived Thomas Cook brand:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56893247
" Summer holiday demand shifts to autumn amid travel uncertainty "
<< ... ... >>
..Thomas Cook said autumn bookings were up 50% on normal levels, while luxury tour operator Kuoni said customers were "holding out for October half term"...
... Greek islands such as Mkyanos are proving popular, says Thomas Cook ...
... This has prompted a surge in autumn holiday bookings, with breaks in September and October accounting for 30% of Thomas Cook's live bookings for the year. That is up 50% on what the group normally sees in these months. ...
... According to Thomas Cook, Greece is the most popular destination for autumn breaks, with Rhodes the most in-demand island followed by Crete, Santorini and Mykonos. ...
.. Travellers swapping summer holidays for autumn ones .. Autumn bookings surge at Thomas Cook and Kuoni as travellers defer summer breaks amid travel uncertainty...
..
and so on.
but it you google Thomas Cook for news within last month - it will keep popping up over a whole range of popular yellow page media channels (Sky/Telegraph/DailyMail, and bung of smaller ones)
i think it is all a con especially when another group is now starting to sell holidays under the Thomas cook brand
Philip, agree with you, never trust those Chinese, especially when they are puppeteering a slimey Swiss CEO!! Like you and 1000’s of others I lost hugely ??
After all the money I lost on TCG, do we really give a ship.
Started: macd657, 29 Jan 2021 07:11
Last post: Super_sub, 17 Mar 2021 08:47
You'll likely be waiting for ever for TCG to appear on the HMRC negligible value list. If you search through it, you'll see that they've only made a single addition for each of the last 2 years.
My understanding is that you can make a negligible value claim, as soon as you have a reasonable expectation that an asset has negligible value.
That's what I am planning to do with my TCG loss, if I need to use it to reduce my gains at any time before the company is finally dissolved.
Be great to get an answer to this in time for tax year end - got some big losses I seemingly can’t use.
1
Hello, does anyone have a view on when Thomas Cook will appear on the HMRC negligible claims register? At least reducing my capital gains tax will reduce some of my losses. Does anyone out there think there is sufficient evidence to make a claim without it being on the register or has anyone attempted to make a claim already?
Started: toonarmy66, 18 Dec 2019 17:10
Last post: toonarmy66, 18 Dec 2019 17:10
hi
Last post: philip_k, 8 Nov 2019 14:51
Whatever Fosun or anyone are paying is nothing to do with us the small shares holders
Fosun will buy the name. See you next Tuesday folks
Last post: AnotherVictim, 31 Oct 2019 09:32
All Gone....
What will happen to the shares now?
Started: illbetabuck, 9 Oct 2019 10:51
Last post: CoogieMallorca, 9 Oct 2019 15:28
Today there was also a story in the local mallorca papers, that an Amercian company is also interested in recruiting staff world wide.
https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/news/local/2019/10/09/58599/american-interest-recruiting-thomas-cook-employees.html
There are still a lot of stories being released here daily and the amount of companies and people affected is still being counted.
No doubt this is the same in every other destintation.
Last post: CoogieMallorca, 7 Oct 2019 17:52
Signed and sent :)
I agree totally with your comments, please update on the response you have. It's clear corruption and with the impact on all the staff that were doing an amazing job despite this corrupt board
I feel the bod needs to be brought to account and punished for destroying loyal TC staff careers, hoteliers, airport support staff , investors and pretty much anyone else affected. The bod dont care they are isolated from any financial due to years of excessive salaries/bonuses etc.. As usual a handful of corrupt and incompetent overpaid wasters ruin the lives of thousands. I am sure members of this bod will end rewarded for their failure with senior positions in other blue chip companies to repeat again disgusting ... .
Paul, I’m seeing my local MP next week. There seems to be manipulation of the company’s income to develop an asset that would be safe after a collapse. The BOD will say they took this strategy on advise. It’s smells of corruption and the so called advisors will be taking huge fees paid on a weekly basis. PF will never be able to walk the streets of the U.K. and the Balearics again.
Isn't it interesting that all Cooks Club and Casa Cook hotels that have been developed or built recently are still operating as a seperate entity to Thomas Cook hence still trading and taking bookings. So huge amounts of Thomas cook group revenue spent on developing hotels that are not part of the group.... with the significant debt issue and significant expenditure for these investments leaving the group with no tangible assets in the end seems like clear corruption. Utilising Thomas cook group revenues to develop hotels that continue after its collapse. And dont get me started on the other tcg airlines still operating. This is a shambles. Wonder what the bod got out of this seems pre planned to me...
Me2
Started: olli-street, 30 Sep 2019 20:46
Last post: olli-street, 30 Sep 2019 20:46
Put this CEO into jail.
Started: CoogieMallorca, 27 Sep 2019 13:52
Last post: CloudyMountain, 30 Sep 2019 13:06
I accept that Brexit made matters worse but feel that the extent of the debt meant that the situation was terminal.
Thanks for everyone’s contributions by the way. I appreciate it. I learn from you. Illbetabuck, hawking, Quisty (among others) - great posts. Thanks.
Quisty - I agree. You can see why TCG went under - PF still thinks they did nothing wrong. It’s incredible.
... and on 2/7/19 20/7/19 in reply to a thread titled “Chinese Proverb”, I wrote:
“Man who invest in company which pays four times as much in interest than it receives from operations learn hard way”.
https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=TCG&share=Thomas-Cook&page=91&thread=6D72C850-9FA5-41CE-A275-7BCE0E677C1B
I agree. The debt was the killer.
I said this back on 2/7/19 in a thread I started. No one replied to it.
Heading: Debt - Yahoo Finance article
02 Jul 2019 19:15
It’s the debt that worries me.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/why-d-shun-thomas-cook-112407308.html?.tsrc=applewf
“Over the 12 months to 31 March, Thomas Cook paid £122m in interest costs but only generated £30m of cash from operations”.
That’s terrible. Absolutely awful. Close to fatal. You’ve got to sell assets then.
“...The firm’s latest balance sheet shows total liabilities of £6,371m and total assets of just £5,026m...”
https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=TCG&share=Thomas-Cook&page=117&thread=45BBC3CD-4803-4F16-A87B-2D55535205BA
I would disagree HK. The thing that finished Thomas a Cook was the huge debt from loans the interest payments, coupled with not moving with the times and having a shocking reputation with customers.
I posted back last year that it was well known TC would be the next airline to go, it was known since Monarch ceased trading.
Look at TC compared to Jet2, Tui, EasyJet and Ryanair. TC has been failing for years where as the others have flourished, even in this time of low pound etc.
TCG should have employed a currency team hedging the £ .
Shorting should protect and not fleece.
TCG disaster reflects on incompetence and greed.
Started: Lazarus1, 29 Sep 2019 19:24
Last post: mapp, 29 Sep 2019 20:36
The Guy is a Fitness Expert and was unqualified for the job.
Who appointed him? For an outstanding Job one needs to have outstanding
qualifications. The Short Selling Maniacs are wealth destruction "experts".
Combined they destroyed TCG.
I see Frankhauser getting his excuses in before the investigation. Trying to claim that when the banks demanded the extra £200 million a month before it was disclosed to shareholders that it was merely a “point of debate”. He also says “i threw everything of me into it for the last three months. I don’t think we as a company did anything wrong”. Yeah right, the dog ate all my homework! Hopefully karma will catch up with this bunch of incompetent idiots.
Started: DestituteBroker, 29 Sep 2019 12:56
Last post: mapp, 29 Sep 2019 13:36
The City is a compost heap
In certain parts it reeks
To find out the TRUTH
Takes years not weeks.
The UK market has been the most shorted market for the last few years due to Brexit. Which is normal Pro trading activity. It could be said that the UK market in general has one of the most sophisticated money extraction systems. It’s only novices that view the market as investments because that’s the way it’s marketed. There has been many changes over the last decade or so, SETS, MIFID 2 etc which has radically change the market set up. Sadly the non industry trained are oblivious to the details.
Started: Saj1224, 28 Sep 2019 16:16
Last post: mapp, 28 Sep 2019 17:41
Insider Information at it's best. The lads in the know did not
take a guess. With Millions they went short. Collected their loot
without thought.
Sorry, should have said, the action was not illegal
It has been confirmed by angry staff that the directors were more focused on chartering a private jet out of Majorca on Friday the 20th to bring back €6m out of the hotels, leaving local suppliers in debt and not paid since mid August. I hope the Spanish and English governments do their duty.
Whilst this act was illegal, it certainly shows the BOD knew where this was going in the next 24hrs. The weekend “ negotiations were all for show. No wonder Fankhauser has hired security!!
Started: Pearls, 27 Sep 2019 10:55
Last post: Quisty, 27 Sep 2019 13:03
Wrong Pearls Fosun were also getting cold feet. UK GOV said in HoC that it was inevitable the company would fail and that even if there was a bailout we would end up repatriating further down the line.
The European TC arms will also go to the wall within next 6 months, they have a lifeline to find a buyer (which may happen)
Air Berlin were give a loan in the same but they went tits up
The correct decision has been made
Wrong Quisty. The £200m would have allowed the takeover to proceed by Fosun. Then it would be off the government's hands entirely.
That level of financial misunderstanding is a real problem out there, as is now witnessed at Metro Bank
This company was burning money by the day. It is disgusting that it was allowed to continue the past 12 months. But as this Board probes people do not understand financials and bang on about 'too big to fail' and the 'brand'.
If the UK GOV paid up £200m it would have lasted 2 weeks and then more would have been begged for. It would have ended up costing the taxpayer more and more. And in the end there would still be a repatriation.
Well done UK GOV.
I see the banks are now being forced to take a GBP 1.8 billion writedown over this fiasco, meanwhile it is now reported to be costing the UK Government at least GBP 1 billion to deal with all the repatriation / hotel etc costs of this.
That is a good use both of bank shareholder funds, and of public money!
Why on earth couldn't the GBP 200m to keep the thing running be supplied? Now it has cost markedly more. Those making such inept decisions should be up on financial manslaughter charges.
Started: RachelsDad, 26 Sep 2019 22:34
Last post: mapp, 27 Sep 2019 09:29
Unqualified Directors were paid Millions doing what?
Short Sellers collect profits doing what?
Amateurs collect Millions and destroy investment.
I doubt if they have trouble sleeping. Their pillows must be soft and plumped with all their millions in bonuses.
I hope all the former Directors have trouble sleeping at night..... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-49817493/thomas-cook-collapse-woman-raises-funds-for-staff-on-flight
Investors lose while short sellers make fat profits.
SHORT SELLERS have insider information. Short Sellers
are PRO TRADERS. Investors are not. 200Mill Profit doing what?
From Friday 4.30 p.m - Monday. Insider Information . That sums up the City
of London, a Shark Pit.
"Some investors are O.A.Ps. Many are computer illiterate.Many LTHs are old and disabled."
and ?
so......maybe buying a fund and having a fund manager would have suited them better
you dont get immunity to risk just because you are old ...
The idea is..you move to lower risk investments ...like Government bonds etc
"investors should be told to stay away."
well if they could read an annual report and the updates then maybe they would.......how many times should you warn someone a Tsunami is on its way ??
Many LTHs are old and disabled. They bought TCG when they were young and enjoyed
travelling. Traders know what is going on and trade the market up and down making
profits. Last Friday the writing was on the wall and many shorters closed their position
and others sold. Traders are in control and investors should be told to stay away.
LTHs are the losers. Hedge fund Managers collected 200 Mill doing what?
fonters
to be fair the Directors have been playing with the result of the last capital re-organisation which put them in the debt situation ...they have been struggling to have money to invest ever since .... a wonder they kept it going this far
Without the last capital re-organisation they would have been bust long ago...
Mapp, you're looking at the wrong villains here. TCG went bust because it owed over 3 billion quid, and wasn't making enough profit to service the debt (let alone ever repay it). Blame for this lies completely with the directors who got the company into this mess. Not with shorters, banks, hedge funds, the govt., auditors or Santa Claus. The directors. Period.
Ceac
Where’s your source for the Anex bid??
So ANEX Tour DID make an offer for the whole company. Ironically Fosun blocked it. Unbelievable.
Started: Woodster5, 26 Sep 2019 14:16
Last post: Woodster5, 26 Sep 2019 14:16
As usual the media have got themselves very confused over executive remuneration. The "bonuses" they have supposedly received are not bonuses at all. In the past three year, there LTIP awards have lapsed every year because performance targets have not been met (and rightly so) and their annual bonus plan has paid out once (in respect of 2017 performance and at a very low level) in the past three years. The amounts received are simply annual salary (about £750K for the ceo if i remember rightly) and pension contributions. If the labour party and their anti business agenda want to claw back fixed pay then that is very dangerous territory.
Even if they do pay back their bonus (I hope they do), that is absolutely nothing to the debt they built up, or the mayhem they have caused to all concerned, employees, pi's, off shots from the supply chain etc
No moral compass with this board ,losing money but still take huge bonus’s,hopefully investigated and the bonus over the years taken back ,or even better they do it on their own accord ,doubt it .
Last post: chilston, 26 Sep 2019 00:04
hi everyone, sorry to have this happen to you all. i have 2 questions, if i may? do you know when the board got there bonuses last and also, bearing in mind that thomas cook didnt get the funding required, is that because the banks/finance companies they were dealing with involved in tui?
im just intrigued. im sorry for the intrusion on your board at a time like this, but these 2 questions as an outsider looking in make me very curious.
appreciate your comments, and once again.... very sorry for those of you that lost out.
Started: No1Scarlet, 25 Sep 2019 17:41
Last post: No1Scarlet, 25 Sep 2019 17:41
Last post: Longish, 25 Sep 2019 13:28
Thanks Lazarus1. BBC presented the article as a win for employees and I guess it is in these circumstances.
Longish, ‘its unlikely that they will get it later unfortunately, it looks like they are going to have to take a 10% haircut on their benefits. This will be down to an assessment of having to pay the final salary benefits for such a large group of people for quite a while. Whilst that will be disappointing for the beneficiaries, if you compare it to some other companies that went into administration where they had raided the pension fund over the years and beneficiaries were left with almost nothing, it could have been a lot worse.
According to BBC, the pension scheme is in surplus but those coming up to retirement will only be guarenteed 90%. Have they lost 10% or get it later when the dust settles?
Started: illbetabuck, 24 Sep 2019 20:56
Last post: Quisty, 25 Sep 2019 11:26
Agree Pokerchips all involved are best off out of this basket case and useless BOD, look forwards to see what action UK Gov take, questions due in Parliament today (am sure clueless MP's will be asking why more money wasn't added to the bonfire PF was building)
"So much for UK government blaming EU rules stopping them from helping support TCG. Gutted for TCG's UK Staff."
illbetabuck,
The papers, filed by former chief executive, Peter Fankhauser, also show that its balance sheet had a deficit of £3.1bn, including guarantees to the Civil Aviation Authority
Helping support TCG ? ... and you talked earlier about being naive
TCG was a Zombie Company and throwing taxpayer money at it would have been wrong
I am pretty sure that RyanAir will start offering some of those flights and have a means to book the same holidays through them ..they will take up some of the lost business ...as will others ....some staff will work elsewhere in the sector and have a far more secure future than with a company with a £3 billion deficit
I made a bet with a friend that BREXIT? On this board traders talk the
market up and down . I am not a trader. My Brexit Bet has nothing to do
with money. If I win I shall enjoy a trip paid for by the loser.
Staff will move on and find another job but INVESTORS lost
their investment while short sellers made fat profits. That is the
game on AIM and now on the main Market . The chap in charge of TCG
is not impressive and one wonders why and how he got the JOB.
Meditation and keep fit must have been his priority and that is not enough
to run a complex organization like TCG.
Germany gave Air Berlin similar thing it lasted a few more months
No taxpayer money for this basket case
Started: seac, 25 Sep 2019 08:58
Last post: Quisty, 25 Sep 2019 09:36
also there is still the intangibles which of course are now worth zilch , thats another £3billion i think even after the write down
outrage , hopefully the useless audit prfoession will get another bashing
Balance Sheet Defecit as reported in Times this AM. That’s a staggering number.
makes sense though as the current debt number is before they pay all their suppliers who clearly they haven't yet as the hotels are chucking customers out or making them pay again, am convinced that the money they were begging UK Gov for was just to pay wages and any payments due this money, hence this would continue every week going forward
seac what does that mean ? are they online?
the guy does not understand money
PF signed off court papers final debt standing of £3.1 billion. Jeez...