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Started: SeanMax44679, 17 Apr 2024 12:26
Last post: Bond-Investments, 19 Jun 2024 02:30
My £5.50 target reached! I was quietly confident lol 😄
Still showing as a FTSE 100 company. Anyone know when it will be put into the 250? And any idea what impact that will have on the price?
Didn't expect such a huge leap today!
Another fantastic day. Surely £5.50 on the cards now?
£5 hit!!
Started: midlandboy, 18 Jun 2024 22:21
Last post: midlandboy, 18 Jun 2024 22:21
Some fairly big movements here recently. I get the feeling that sentiment is changing for the positive. How are others seeing things?
Started: Freedom4Uall, 28 May 2024 09:53
Last post: Jatw, 13 Jun 2024 14:17
STJ is different from MNG / LGEN in that it only provides unit linked insurance funds. As such it charges fees for administration and asset management, but does not take financial risks itself (these are all client risks). As a result it is a capital lite business.
This makes reputation and investment performance critical to its proposition as clients can move their money relatively easily to other providers.
The SJPartners distribute the products and are well rewarded with advice and servicing fees. SJP has the largest tied sales force which makes it a powerful driver of profits. Others rely more on IFAs to distribute their products which is a more competitive model.
It would only be undervalued if all the bad news was out in the open, a strong and consistent recovery plan was announced including wide reaching restructuring of its workforce and an investigation into how they managed to forget to record ongoing advice for over a decade.
SJP has failed to get the basics right, they mislead the FCA, their shareholders, clients and advisers.
Is this Business undervalued and on what basis other earnings, and how is this Business different from MNG and Legal and General?
Started: GC1991, 1 May 2024 07:50
Last post: GC1991, 1 May 2024 07:50
Looking at the detail, SJP is receiving net new investments in its pensions business the investment and unit trust business has net withdrawals in a period that covers “ISA season” it’s a sign that only the stickiest new business is holding up and who knows if this will suffer the same decline in time as regular contributions are diverted by concerned clients.
Started: Stalinvest, 9 Apr 2024 19:08
Last post: LIBERTAS, 16 Apr 2024 19:38
Porsche 1946. what a boring old bistard you are, get a life old timer, before you run out of time.
This dogshxt is heading for a couple of quid a share, it’s business model is utterly terminal, same as Hargreaves Lansdown, ftse full of this crap, poorly managed dross with declining models listed on the most hated exchange ( thank brexit, massive outflows every year since 2016) in the world.
Is the Sp depreciated due to the recent press, yes. However, I don't think this is the bad news coming for SJP holders, but rather the change of model being forced onto them by the media is. The "implicit charges" people mention are early withdrawal charges (EWC), in which, if someone transfers their pension to an SJP pension they will be subject to a maximum of 6 years with an early withdrawal charge (EWC) decreasing per year 1%. At the end of the 6 years, no more EWC. This is the maximum and is dependant upon the charging structure of their existing pension which the new SJP pension will be compared against. the lower the charges the more the adviser will have to "give up" in regards to their initial fee. It is worth nothing SJP pay the advisers their initial fee, and SJP benefit from having the pension invested for a minimum period, causing SJP to make their money by an annual AMC. Total charges often do not exceed 2% on SJP pensions, if ever they do by 0.02% or something minimal. Independent firms have total expense ratio's, all things encompassed from product charges, platform fees for whichever platform they invest their clients money, to their ongoing advice charges and these are essentially on the same level as SJP charges, around the 2% mark. The difference is you do not pay the initial fee with SJP whereas with independent firms which are whole of market, you do. For example. If you have a £300,000 pension in which you wanted to transfer to SJP, the whole £300,000 would be invested and would be subject to an EWC for a maximum of 6 years depreciating 1% per year. If you are 6 years or more off accessing your pension, you do not pay an initial charge at all effectively. But, even if you are of pension age, you have an annual withdrawal allowance of 7.5%, meaning you can still draw income from your plan charge free, and if you are taking income it is rare and unsustainable to take more than 7.5% anyway. Now, with an independent firm, if you have £300,000 in your existing pension in the same scenario, 3% would be paid as an initial fee to your adviser (which is industry standard for an initial fee) leaving you £291,000 to transfer, being subject to the same 2% ongoing annual fee. Unfortunately, SJP has been forced by the media to sack off its old approach and adopt the independent route. Personally, I think this is bad for SJP, what that means for shareholders I do not know. I am sure SJP will adapt to the changes, but will it be as profitable as before, I doubt it. But, if there is a silver lining, it could still be that the SP is over depreciated. Thanks for reading all, if you have made it this far I respect your patience.
Started: Bond-Investments, 25 Mar 2024 14:54
Last post: oj17, 8 Apr 2024 18:24
You couldnt make it up - after listening to the ambulance chasers targeting SJP on Greatest hits - I switch to rival Heart due to bad reception and there is an ad FOR SJP........
Who knows oj but I am amazed at the number of people I know who use SJP and love them. “But they are very expensive and their performance is so-so” leaves them very unmoved.
My feeling is the regulator, after decades of destroying financial services companies with retrospective legislation, has finally pitched this one right. SJP can simply replace exit fees with initial charges.
Really don’t see a flood here. SJP clients are not listening to ads for ambulance chasers IMO.
Either way, massive swings in both directions everyday. Definitely a good trading share at the moment if you can time it right.
Still bad news to come im afraid - UK wide Greatest Hits radio has continious advert from an ambulance chaser lawyer looking for people/investors with a gripe about the service......
Heading back to £5? Currently 2nd highest riser on FTSE100. Didn't expect such a recovery from the recent lows of 410 but market seems very forgiving right now.
Started: Munichmann, 5 Mar 2024 08:09
Last post: Jatw, 7 Apr 2024 18:19
And it starts to sink again…..the apparently bombed out price does present an opportunity for M&A but it would be very high risk for the bidder (I doubt a listed company would take it on) as they would need to offer a premium to get interest from current management and BoD. A bidder is more likely when the hard work has been done and current difficulties fully quantified.
Avoid until end 2025 is my view.
Its risen because a news article mentioned STJ and suggested its ripe for a takeover so all the carpet baggers jump on board for a quick profit, they will stay 1 or 2 weeks and then be gone again.
Porsche what a pathetic little man you are, stop moaning and get a life .
@Porsche
Get a life constantly talking about Brexit. Seek help saddo
I thought the advertising is too generic…..and very millennial….you have to fear for the next generation when Dads have to be there for emotional support…
Started: spindok, 18 Mar 2024 10:42
Last post: spindok, 18 Mar 2024 10:42
Think they should change the name to Rock and Hard... Been watching this but still have no confidence to buy any.. I am looking for some recovery stocks but this is heading towards another year low!!
Started: GC1991, 8 Mar 2024 12:43
Last post: triumph1, 8 Mar 2024 15:05
Unfortunately this is untouchable at the moment. Even for the bottom feeders/contrarians.
Certainly on my radar, but the dust needs to settle first. The company is under scrutiny now, so would not be surprised if more things came to light.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the renewed death spiral, it would be interesting to know what investigations are open on SJP at the moment.
Last post: NOFEAR, 29 Feb 2024 08:00
Morning AimMaster2018 🙃
What a surprise to see you here😉
Yes I did invest in Stj. But I jumped out with only 6% gain thanks to the dead cat bounce. It was painful to watch.
Have a good1👍 buddy.
GoodLuck🤞
Nofear ? Don't tell me u bought the same one I have. Capy cat 😻
Or Schroders…..they have a JV with Lloyds for mass market and the wealthier STJ clients may be attracted to the blue blooded boys and gals at SDR.
Although SDR was sniffy about the culture at MNG, and may well turn their nose up at the oiks at STJ.
More likely to be Lloyds bank the ones to take over STJ
Opens the door to someone like Blackrock or JPM to acquire billions in funds under management
Started: technoInvest, 28 Feb 2024 16:55
Last post: Jatw, 28 Feb 2024 22:32
The dead cat bounce has the look of a decomposing body rising to the surface before it sinks to the bottom waterlogged to rot.
You're not alone in this techno. Very often the computers overdo the drop & there is a relative bounce once they are reined in.
Been following this one for a while and bought a small amount earlier. Not every day you see a FTSE 100 company (for now) fall approx 35% at its lows on the day but pleasing to see it finish "only" around 18% down. With the recent takeover action on a few other large companies that's my guess for the next 12 months as despite some historic issues with the business they are the UKs largest financial adviser. I thought it was worth a small position. Good luck all and sorry to the longer term holders.
1 billion market capital off and 450 million back on up until now so still big interest or lots of selling due after a 20% increase from todays low . Hopefully the money will stay in the sp
Glad I sold my entire holding in January.This company not investable atm. I feel sorry for existing shareholders. However I do believe this Company will prosper towards the end of the decade. Until then goodbye everyone
Started: AL75, 28 Feb 2024 10:27
Last post: plumbs, 28 Feb 2024 11:18
Seems to be bouncing since you posted that :)
All time high of 1742 in Jan 2022
June 2022 downtrend starts
Now significant drop on mis-selling (Expect more)
In future - stock market problems , recession etc. will lead to levels not seen since the 2008 crash (i.e. a 90% decline from the top)
The business damage is yet to emerge…..
Partners / distribution staff leave to other IFA networks
Clients going elsewhere
Poor servicing caused by the above.
A three year recovery plan means it will be a very different business before it is investible again.
I suspect there will be a lot more red ink in the next year and the SP has further to fall….
Eventually there may be some M&A to deliver some value but this may be a low ball PE deal so that the business can be broken up out of the public gaze,
It is a sell for me
2027 is the timeline for some sort of recovery…..
This is a speculative investment for the next 3 years….best avoided….the best partners are likely to drift away to IFA networks and other wealth managers….there is lots of red ink to come from SJP.
In some ways it does seem strange that the scale of these plans / provisions have not been flagged earlier.
It seems likely that an exit from the FTSE 100 is now on the cards, how much stock will be dumped in the market when the trackers shift to its replacement.
A bit ironic that SJP’s own shares are such a good example of why active management can help avoid known problems in tracker funds.
Onlyonewhufc has been quiet since his post of 26th January.
Sedaka...
You wrote on 25th January 2024..
I sold early on Monday as I was expecting a big fall today. I do not expect to re enter into this share until fees charging structure becomes clearer.
Hahaha, the share dropped 10%, youre comment above made me smile because the SP has already recovered in fact it's grown 4.88% over 5 days..
Not saying you're not right but imo knee jerk...
Interest savings rates are reducing and will continue over the next 12 - 24 mths, where do you think all of the money currently invested in banks etc etc at 6% is going to go when they mature??
My guess is equities...well see
Good call as things have gone today. Lots of buying last 2 days!!! They’ll be ****
I sold early on Monday as I was expecting a big fall today. I do not expect to re enter into this share until fees charging structure becomes clearer.
Started: Jatw, 27 Feb 2024 16:51
Last post: tycoon786, 28 Feb 2024 09:58
Does not want a massive sale of shares, id be buying sub 400
“The assessment revealed that our evidence of ongoing client servicing was less complete…” presumably there was no evidence because there was no ongoing client servicing, do these people think that investors are mugs? They probably do because that’s been their business model until they were caught out. Why not just be honest instead of looking like fools.
What a load of tosh from the company today! A series of unmitigated disasters and it's all dressed up as positive by the CEO. How about an honest assessment of what has happened and how it's going to be addressed?
I wonder how much they will have set aside for client claims and if they will have set anything aside for claims from partners.
I am expecting the new CEO to explain the problems and his plan to get the business moving again….he had better be convincing on both…..maybe he will want a new CFO.
Started: DiviDave64, 28 Feb 2024 08:50
Last post: DiviDave64, 28 Feb 2024 08:50
Well, the stats on corporates who cut dividends are very poor indeed. Personally taken the decision to sell all shares given the results, huge uncertainty and guidance for future returns provided in the results. Capital and returns risk are now simply out of whack.
The SJP model has simply run its course. It simply charges too much vs competition and relies on ignorance of investors. The FCA know this and I’m a little astonished they have got away with it until last year or so when wheels started to come off with the relentless regulatory focus.
This along with VOD is my largest ever loser in capital terms - fortunately not a sizeable position. Win some etc. Cut losses across 3 wrappers and will deploy elsewhere. Opportunity cost and headspace will all benefit. Good luck all
Last post: SmallerThanLife, 28 Feb 2024 08:47
Not for me. Very little trust in management currently.
Tempted to buy at 400 if it drops that low.
Worth a punt at that level.
Started: AceofClubs, 28 Feb 2024 07:45
Last post: Mr.Picky, 28 Feb 2024 08:24
And I think the Investors Chronical was rating the shares a "buy" earlier this year !
A quick read of the RNS says to me cash rewards to Partners and Management will be protected: shareholders will be wacked.
I sold at £10 not temted at the current price.
AceOfClubs
Started: AceofClubs, 27 Feb 2024 13:02
Last post: GC1991, 27 Feb 2024 15:51
The FCA are being forced to play hardball, SJP have managed to dodge RDR, for over a decade. The new charging structure has been brought about because SJP have consistently overcharged clients.
Once the initial advice fee has been paid through a 60 basis points levy on ongoing charges compared to clients who do not pay for the initial advice.
The third group to consider in this are the SJP staff, many of whom are receiving high-five and six figure salaries for relatively junior sales management roles. SJP can easily resolve the partner and shareholder issues by cutting the fat in its sales management function however, these are precisely the people making decisions.
The FCA are acutely aware that if they move too fast, SJP is likely to collapse.
STJ's biggest challenge will be keeping the "Partners" and the FCA both satisfied. If there is to be less customer derived pie to share out how will the pain be apportioned between "Partners" and shareholders? Will some "Partners" bail out or expect STJ to buy them out?
STJ's unique feature in the marketplace has been its large, well motivated (if usually a bit unctuous) sales-force and it cannot afford to lose too much of that feature. Will the FCA play hard-ball?
One for the gamblers or the brave at the moment.
AceOfClubs
The FCA’s Consumer Duty has shafted financial services. Best to deploy your money else where SJP’s share price isn’t going back to the levels of 24 months ago anytime soon.
Five days later SP back to where I sold them.As I stated I shall not re-enter until the fees and charging structure is clarified.
However I do believe this is a decent Company in which to invest with a good dividend yield and recovery prospects.
Started: GC1991, 25 Jan 2024 19:49
Last post: GC1991, 25 Jan 2024 19:49
Without digging too deep, you can see net outflows in all but the pension business for the last 3 months. Pensions have regular contributions which will take longer to fall away but it’s already down a long way and it wouldn’t be unheard of for those to go negative in the next quarter.
Property funds are already suspended for life and isa business, if the pensions go the same way the writing is on the wall.
Started: Jatw, 25 Jan 2024 18:54
Last post: Jatw, 25 Jan 2024 18:54
The fund performance must have been excellent to raise AUM as it did…..which will help justification for positive value assessments.
This is a business that needs some serious reforms which may be expensive and painful for the company and the “partners”.
In 2021, the SP was £17. Wealth management was seen as the sexy high margin part of financial services because controlling access to clients was seen as the stickiest of fee bases……
What has gone wrong?
Clients being charged for no service.
Clients being charged high fees and early termination fees
Market pressures to reduce costs and fee charges.
Inflation
STJ reputation is a little tarnished and the Share Price has deflated…..
But there is still a decent business here, it has a large (wealthy) client base, once it has been transformed there should be a decent chance of a recovery of the SP…..but not back to £15-17, I am thinking 8-10.
The new CEO needs to be given time to set out his reforms and then implement them, so I dont see this share going above £7 in 2024 (absent M&A).
Buy in mid 2025 - if the new business starts to make some headway.
Last post: Chippyg, 25 Jan 2024 08:39
Was that not a fairly positive rns ? Huge drop obviously not ?
Thought we were doing so well this week all gains gone in 10 minutes
Started: Jatw, 10 Jan 2024 09:13
Last post: Jatw, 24 Jan 2024 13:03
Let’s see what the debt equity split is on any fund raise….
The story seemed to be that funds were needed to allow business transfers between the advisors/salesmen “partners”.
The older ones are retiring faster than new ones want to take up the business…..think the partners are going to be in for a shock as to the haircut they need to take because future fees are not going to match those of the past and their successors cant afford to pay the old rate.
Maybe there are guaranteed terms in their partnership agreement, in which case shareholders are going to take the hit.
No one will feel sorry…..best avoid until the situation is clear.
Very little detail on this £1bn bail out they are cooking up, it’s a brave move to say there are no problems and ask for around a third of the value of the company to fix it.
There needs to be an almighty dollop of truth to wash this down.
It will take a couple of years before we see any meaningful recovery here….
First we need to hear from Fitzpatrick about how he is going to reshape the business….it will likely need some quite heavy re-plumbing to get it working better for customers….which will then take time to flow through into business improvements…..
In the meantime they must be finding it hard to compete for new business….
A hold at best IMO….