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Just to let you know that I have e-mailed IF to ask him exactly this question.
Gixer, I am not expecting him to let us know the amount - but I do expect him to have to answer the basic question.
Dr Horrible, I do not think that they can simply exclude the figures from the Half Year Report as it would result in a mismatch with the Balance Sheet.
I will let you know when, or if, I receive a response.
Slam
PS I am a bit disappointed by the lack of market movement today.
Another alternative could be that the royalty is paid to DSM on future productions of Fruitflow, therefore beco9ming an invisible cost of goods in the accounts. No doubt DSM still demand their usual secrecy to throw potential buyers noff the scent of what their margins are.
It's a legitimate question, and one that I hope is possible for us to see an answer to. Not that I'm holding my breath over though.
Has anyone emailed PXS to clarify where the DSM royalty is accounted for? This would soon clear up any uncertainty
Wouldn't expect PXS to give away any of MM's secrets before launch. They may not even know anything as it could be a DSM market ready or premix.
Would have been nice if MM did reply though, even if it was just to say that they can't say anything atm.
Have Emailed MM about Sirco heart about availability:haven't had a reply"emailed PXS" their response:nothing to do with us contact MM!!
Fwiw - which, given my not brilliant grasp of accountancy, isn't much, as far as the Profit and Loss goes, I expected the royalties to be treated as a selling expense
Given they only increased from ~20k last year to ~30k this year, I'm hoping I was wrong and the royalties are being treated as part of the cost of goods.
BB
I think we would all like to know how much and how the royalty payment is reported.
I just hope that the increase in revenue indicates some new customers :)
Maybe the new Sirco shot will be launched soon now that Christmas and New Year is out the way.
Slam,
Exactly what I have been thinking. The Royalty is hidden or excluded.
At the end of September we had £435k (280+155) in FF sales.
3 months later we have confirmed FF sales of £889k (299+270+320).
So £454k (889-435) in the last 3 months.
They did say at the AGM that some companies stocked up prior to transition, so that would skew the figures for the early part of the year. Hopefully the last few months are more representative.
Then we have about £160k per year from FF+o3.
i have now had a chance to read through the entire report in full detail (along with some of the comments that you guys have made in relation to the results).
however, i am more than slightly confused about the nature of the agreement that we have with dsm regarding the "royalties" that we pay to dsm for the sales to previous customers of theirs. i understand that the details of the agreement are confidential but, in order to maintain that confidentiality, they cannot, and have not, directly refer to any "royalty payment" made to dsm within the half year report. having reviewed the income and expenditure account, i think that there are only two ways in which they can manipulate the figures to hide these payments:
1) revenue: they might show revenue net of the royalty payment, or
2) cost of goods: they might include the royalty payment within the cost of goods.
either way, this will result in a distortion of the true long term profit. on a back of *** packet basis, i have estimated that the royalty payment could easily be in the region of £150 - £200k. if this was the case, then it means that our long term figures (without royalty payments are already much closer to "break even" than we might be led to believe.
the note of sales in q4 2023 (£270k) and the note of orders being processed in q1 2024 (£320k) are hugely encouraging if this is the case.
am i overthinking this?????
Mol42
I think you are misreading some of the results
I agree that a 60k outflow is good news, but this will swing up and down in future reports according to stock levels and debtors v inflows.
The increase in debtors is solely down to the new business to business sales model. A further increase would be a welcome sign so long as sales volumes keep growing. This would be easier to finance without equity raises.
Extended terms are normal within industry, in my own trade 90 days is normal, 120/150 days are frequently offered to encourage larger stock holdings.
The main goal has to be adding more brands, especially more powerful ones, and they do demand favourable terms.
Just normal business IMHO
A million in income, say 10p a shot, equates to 10million shots. This equates to around 27.3k users on annual basis.
Do the same math for diffetent cost/shot basis and the answer is the same, badger all number of users at the mo
W£
The attached price trends puts lower margins in contrxt
https://www.tomatonews.com/en/prices_44.html
W$
So, the ship has been steadied and is on course to breakeven. Relationships with new customets and suppliers established. DSM shackles getting looser day by day.
Not sure what game he was playing today, at worst an attempt to stabilize SP, at best, who knows.
HNY
Welly
Ah, I thought I'd lost the text so started again. Apologies for the duplicate info and wall of text
a million in revenue from ff sd ii isn't going to get us in profit sphinx. look at today's numbers :-
290k revenue from ff sd ii gave us a gross profit of roughly 70 to 80k ( ff+ making up the rest. on that ratio,1 million would probably generate a gross profit of between 250 and 300k.
if we effectively* pay less royalties to dsm in 2024, maybe that'd stretch to a gross profit of 350k ? add in the profit from ff+ and you're probably in the order of 450k as gross profit.
sphinx
based on today's accounts, a million in revenue won't take us into profit.
back of a *** packet calcs suggest that 299k in sales of ff sd ii generated a gross profit of roughly 75k ( with the remainder coming from ff+ )
all things being equal, a million in sales of ff sd ii would give a gross profit of between 250 and 300k. assuming* we pay dsm less royalties in 2024, maybe we'd be looking at ~350k as a gross profit ?
add in the profit from ff+ of 100k and that's 450k. our annual costs are in excess of that.
bb
*the royalties thing is worded strangely in the rnss. it sounds like they'll drop over the next 3 years, but it doesn't specifically say that, but i'm hoping the result is the same.
he rns's also say that, for like for like sales and margins, we should be better off now than what we were under the aa, but we're getting less profit from sales than we received under the aa, so either sales or margins, or both, are down.
Whilst a cash outflow of only £60k over the period is to be applauded a reduction in gross margin from 75.5% to 35.5%
and a dramatic increase of £203k in debtors ( financed in part by increase in payables of £130k) isn't
jees what terms are they offering to achieve sales?
just a few initial observations
mol
Yes, revenue growing nicely. Will be interesting to see how share price reacts on Tuesday. I have been in this share for ages let's hope for a long overdue boost to share price!
Probably over £1m revenue for the full year ,got to be close to a profit next year .
Hopefully 2024 will make a profit "but honestly cannot see it:15 years of the BOD taking nice wages Admin and other costs £240 k Nice £260 k Loss
Looks positive going into the the New Year
Good luck everyone
And have a Great 2024
I’ve been out all morning and had a pleasant surprise when I came in ,there is nearly £600k nailed on for H2 with 3 months to go , well done pxs .
We're almost a year into the 4 years pumpky, and that's something we already knew about...
Got to pay royalties to DSM for 4 years:Still losing money year on year:the only hope is the Chinese!
Less profit share to DSM from 01st Jan, so we will see an increased profit share.
More or less agree with those comments.
Reasonably good sales, and sales pipeline, whilst we wasit for: a/ DSM to develop and commercialise a new area of health benefit (years away), and b/ ByHealth to get started with their undoubtedly strong marketing skills. (near term se hop)