Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Plus with with so few shares, as Traders sell and lth's buy them up, it is going to be even harder for the Trader to sell, post negatives, and FAIL to re buy lower... #FingersCrossed :)
Disagree Cap, they wanted to win "on the cheap" now, the Dhsc know they cant!
And using testing failure, when they continued to buy from Nova, shows they are two faced!
Its about wanting cake and eat it, cuz they dont care about spiffing tax payers pounds, WOULD BE DIFFERENT IF IT CAME FROM THEIR POCKETS!
As soon as Nova PROVE tests are accurate when done CORRECTLY, this will all be over bar the AMOUNT the dhsc have to pay up!
I seem to recall a specialist test centre in West Mids, failing miserably due to poor training and was highlighted in the press? Im sure dhsc went to cheapest options and hence it is game over as far as I am concerned...
Its just a case of when now...
#atadmorepatience imo dyor
"Yes CS , they did."
What? I still am not clear on what you are trying to say? they want the whole thing over? or desperate to avoid a trial
i still disagree no one in the gov will lose sleep over it going to trial
"If the DHSC had won instead of the application being dismissed , thrown out , not upheld , the consequences could have been dire for NCYT. The trial may very well have not proceeded with the judge saying no chance of success."
agreed..but as i said this was a good tactic for the gov legal team and trying to bully - doesnt mean they are desperate not to go to trial. they tried it on - it didn't work. i am sure there will be more fn an games to come
"to learn that they don't have us over a barrel over some technicality related to the contract, which may have been difficult to defend."
well i think it is jumping the gun to say that it is not difficult to defend against
it is still going to court an quite a lengthy court hearing
"The DHSC now will also know how NCYT intend to defend their claims re the tests suitability ( that is how the judge made her decision) and it may well result in them being more inclined to settle ,"
i suspect they knew this all along already - they have clearly had numerous talks before it even went to court.
plus if you look at the filings - the particulars of the claim were made as well as the defence. plus the amendments
furthermore nyct barrister already knew they had a weak case on the judgement.
imho i dont think anything new was learnt by other party yesterday other than a feeling for the judge
Whilst also happy with dismissal I did not like the slant of the sky article. It appeared to focus on the dhsc argument but didn't actually mention that early judgment had been dismissed. No mention that the product in question is an approved product so therefore has undergone stringent tests. It also didn't state that monies owed to ncyt are for another product Which have not been paid for.
Personally I would like the case to to trial to highlight the flaws in the testing system back then but more importantly restoring the reputation of primerdesign/novacyt that has been damaged. Just my opinion please dyor.
Yes CS , they did. If the DHSC had won instead of the application being dismissed , thrown out , not upheld , the consequences could have been dire for NCYT. The trial may very well have not proceeded with the judge saying no chance of success.
It can go ahead , now we wait to see if it does or a settlement is reached. I am also pleased ( by default) to learn that they don't have us over a barrel over some technicality related to the contract, which may have been difficult to defend.
The DHSC now will also know how NCYT intend to defend their claims re the tests suitability ( that is how the judge made her decision) and it may well result in them being more inclined to settle , I obviously have no idea , but view the decision as pivotal in relation to how the DHSC now decide to proceed. Imo.
But going to court had two major implications previously - one was the time lost, uncertainty, share price depreciation and cost etc that it would cause for 3 years and the other was the risk that you just mentioned.
The first one doesn't really apply now so to compromise at this late stage, besides the settlement being *way* in our favour, doesn't seem like a rational strategy.
The reason i hoped for a settlement is that ncyt would still have considerable cash after the whole covid thing. lets face it this small penny share company did win the lottery...and ability to transform themselves.
court case does carry risk - no matter how strongly i feel they have a good case
a settlement would have seen both sides win something in my opinion rather than one losing big at court - whether it be cash/solvency or reputation
"Be under no illusion , the govt wanted the case stopped "
I am not sure what you are trying to say here?
if it that they want the whole thing over - possibly/probably ...although i am not sure anyone at dhsc is losing sleep
if it is that they are desperate at avoiding trial - then i disagree
the gov want the PR of chasing the money back...in some ways even if they lose they win. i believe the PR is worth much more to them than the millions of cash
they prob tried bullying ncyt before applying for court date. this pre trial judgement seems to be another bully boy tactic..which neither ncyt nor the judge fell for.
however that is what good legal teams do. make no mistake they have very strong representation as do ncyt
I hear you CS. I still think there’s a decent chance of settlement at the eleventh hour although I’m not overly bothered now, for maximum impact I’m happy to see it go to trial.
Hi HarChris .....is it live on TV ..or just bitesize news feed...there will be media interest ...it is a fight for our money back . ..probably worth more than novacyts french shareholders gain .........balance ....it will not effect trial result ... just novacyts path ..reputation ...and name
Does anyone know the shareholder ratio between France and the UK?
With the bourse closed today - tomorrow will be interesting with the French reaction.
Harchris - the point i am making is that "it is out" in terms of the lab findings etc
yesterday was only the pre trial review - so there was not such a big deal but it will gain more traction when we get to trial. tbh i was surprised it was covered at all - i wasnt expecting that. an as i say unfortunately i don't think it did us a favour in terms of negotiation of a settlement.
you all know i previously was of the opinion that it will be settled pre court date.
I now feel it will definitely go to trial
are the public interested ?- prob not at all
however enemies of the current gov most certainly are..and the gov know this
imho it is all about optics....after the news yesterday if they were to settle then it would leave huge question marks that could be exploited.
eg who was this lab that the gov relied on ? if their findings are dubious who employed them?
if the findings were accurate then why are the gov not pursuing all hard earned tax payer money back etc etc
Neil , as the claimant the DhSC has to prove their claims. They would have gone with their strongest line of arguement in the application, in the hope of a win and Ncyt being unable to provide in detail all their evidence both written and oral ( witnesses) I am not at all concerned about the supposed 6 NHS labs , what hasn't been reported is the thousands of successfully executed exsig tests, nor the reasons why Twigger used the phrase 'throughly bad' in relation to the DHSC evidence. The judge saw enough to dismiss their application.
I view this as very positive and definitely opens the door to negotiation. What Ncyt decide to do if an offer is made is beyond my ability to predict.
I would expect the costs for preparation of defence of application to be awarded to Novacyt.
CS, there’s a very decent chance none of us would even have been aware of that article if Larry didn’t spot it, let alone the general public! I had a scroll around Sky News and didn’t find it without actively searching for it.
Neil has a point in terms of the impact of this, 99% of the general public will be unaware of the outcome of this dispute no matter the decision.
There are 76m shares in issue. Hoping for at least £80m boost in market cap (over £1 a share) when the case is settled. Even if DHSC don't have to pay which is unlikely the removal of the £100m + claim against Novacyt should be enough.
"The DHSC application for summary judgement was perhaps the last throw of the dice,"
It isn't it is going to court
Neil - the fact sky news covered it is enough mate - they are quite big you know - and other news outlets like msn and yahoo will link to the sky report anyway
but as you don't believe me
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/british-government-pursues-145-million-refund-over-allegedly-defective-covid-19-test-kits/ar-AA1nWiaF
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/government-seeks-145m-refund-covid-153300954.html
apology accepted!..lol
The DHSC application for summary judgement was perhaps the last throw of the dice, they likely know that their case is weak and that their evidence suggesting that tests didn't work, shall not stand up in court under scrutiny, hence the reason for the application, yesterday non of the evidence was examined in detail.
I thought if any news org was to pick up this story it might be the Telegraph, as our old friend Samuel Lovett is now deputy health editor.
For once I agree PB, its now a case of Nova and Dhsc agreeing...
with Nova having the much stronger hand...
hope dhsc dont bluff to much... imo
I’m with Neil on this and have been for a while - I really don’t see this dispute gaining any sort of significant media traction, it is yesterday’s news.
Everyone knows the government wasted billions during the pandemic, if they claw back £100m it’s a decimal point on the overall number. If they settle and pay out £50m it’s two decimal places.
To highlight a win here for the government would merely bring attention back to all the billions they wasted in 2020/21
Wish they would, up n down for a few pennies, when holding would force sp upwards... imo
especially with only 70 mil shares :(
I think there is a good chance this will never get to Court. Old saying…nothing gets agreed until the steps of the Court.
Captain....post the news links. Google search revealed only the one previously mentioned Sky News online item, which is already yesterday's news and below the radar for anybody interested in this case.
Primerdesign ltd ...have been given the right to defend ......it does not change the dhsc case ...the spread is used to gain extra profit on low volume ...Tomorrow it will narrow if more trades on bourse .. spread is a gage to volume .......market money unimpressed....