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Handymandy you’re the one needing professional help. You sound like a nut case on a regular basis
You need professional help Truroman. Good luck with the rehabilitation!
Handjobman. You shout too loud about things you know nothing about. The living wage you mention is outdated and growns more irrelevant each day., as does your knowledge of the numbers striking and the effect it has had on the work stack. People on the chat that see the truth day in-day out are the only ones qualified to comment whereas you believe what you get told by the BT press wagon that would never let the truth come out they may have to explain themselves.
If you spend entire company profit on a pay rise then how is the business supposed to grow or survive the less profitable period?
You could use the same argument against dividends
So if a lot of people don't vote in the general election we ignore the result as well.
Truroman
BT pay more than the living wage to their brand new hires already. Living wage is £19,305 and BT are advertising jobs from £20,511
Also 40,000 employees did not vote to strike. A big chunk said no in the ballot and then when it came to the strike days another chunk said no which resulted in about half of the 40,000 that were originally balloted and the vast majority of them were Openreach workers.
Truroman
sometimes better the devil you know rather the devil you dont - be careful for what you wish for
if you want to create wealth work for yourself and take all the risks of business - then take all the gain...or pain
when you work and shelter under the umbrella of a company - you never going to create the real wealth
go out into the market and test your worth
unluckyInvestor9... by not paying staff the current living wage and breaking moral is a way of becoming less profitable for sure The board need to understand who does the graft and creates the wealth even during adverse times.
nothing wrong with an annual pay rise - but -
the idea that as a nation the people can just expect inflation level pay rises and expect to live as if the problems round the world don't exist is ----- a nonsense
...and will end up just sinking the UK - watch it set off a chain of events that will seriously wish they hadn't
Dividends must also be restrained in these times too
If you spend entire company profit on a pay rise then how is the business supposed to grow or survive the less profitable period?
Handyjobman... your view is as antiquated as it is selfish. so, 40,000 people are wrong expecting to be paid a share of the profits of a company in a form of a pay rise... any different than you expecting gains for your financial investments. maybe the separation is that all employees deserve it for keeping the company in good shape. whereas you have no care who earned your profits and think you can laugh at those in this country that maybe suffering as the board seek to drive salaries down. And Heavy's view is not socialism its just common sense , something you obviously lack
Only thing that is too late Heavy is you! BT is on the rise now and the CWU will soon be history within the BT Group. Expect a joint bid from Altice and DT before the end of September. Know this will give you indigestion Heavy, but you've only got yourself to blame with your antiquated socialist views.
Link the workers pay increase to the boards salary. The board has presided over a company whose shares are falling. If an ordinary engineer was doing such a bad job they would be fired. SACK THE OVERPAID BOARD NOW BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.
I see that In a few news reports on firms that have strikes happening they don’t even mention the next BT strike days. I don’t think anyone cares about it as it has zero impact on anything. The Felixstowe strike and the Lawyers strike and the train strikes all stay in the news because they will have impact.
Be interesting to see what the Unions all do next year when inflation goes up again. Will they all be striking if the pay deals are less than 18%?? Will they strike themselves when their own pay doesn’t go up by the cost of living increase ??
Yes you sound like a leftie bot Loan Vanker. Most lefties are into that kinda thing. As they say in China, you talk lubbish. Lots of patronising, socialist leaning lubbish. As Boris so rightly said, when the turde moves, the turde moves.
Handymandy.
Most noise? …third and last post on BT, hardly as noisy as your good and so clever self. You keep on yapping and not listening. Again choosing to put your own slant and bias on what you think you read in other peoples comments. Perhaps I am a leftie bot. I would reiterate but no point.
FWIW Telecoms do well in this cycle. BT and anything very UK centric and may offer an opportunity but the risks today are high. Lots of political twist and turns to come first and I have little confidence in the US and UK governments to do the right thing. …ie cut index linked benefits and pensions and make productive paid employment truly pay at the lower end.
If they do the UK may be ok…if they don’t then any business which is UK reliant for earnings will struggle.
Good luck all…
Hi dear Vanker. Empty vessels make the most noise. And you are certainly emptier than most with your socio-economic tome. What a load of rubbish. Lighten up and get a life. If you’ve got nothing else to do, try slipping your partner a length, instead of boring us all witless Down with the CWU and socialism.
Hey handymandy not sure where that reply came from but you couldn’t misread a comment more wrongly if you tried. I did say ignore politics…so a bit off thread but to expand.
Mine comment wasn’t union support or criticism it’s a fact that labour will become a hugely precious and declining resource. Demographics in the West don’t bode well at all….Germany even worse and who are already in enough bother. Unions are reacting to the shift in power but soon they won’t need to.
So many people on the government teat wanting fuel bills paying, BP taxing, furlough payments, inflation linked benefits. Less and less people are coming through and those few are increasingly less willing and less able to pay for things they aren’t sharing in.
Actually a reduction in earned income tax and NI may help….or at least make investors, benefit claimants, multimillionaires and pensioners all pay the same rate as workers and that may help.
Can’t have more claiming than earning….sorry is that socialism you do wisely misread into my first comment?
There is a fundamental shift happening….try getting a decorator out to your house next week, and if you manage to get him see what they charge. This isn’t a short term labour issue it is systemic and will worsen as will inflation.
Some businesses will use efficiencies and AI to compensate for increasing staff wage ie less staff but then we have demand destruction if that millennial generation isn’t earning they won’t be buying.
Globalisation was so close….but TPTB (and I don’t mean the minnows running these FTSE companies…it’s the big boys) got too greedy and have too many fingers in too many pies.
So now we move to a multipolar world and the petrodollar will be eroded (and is already) and fundamental changes will occur. Happens every 100 years with the British, Dutch etc empires. It requires divide for someone to blame….it may even need a few wars which isn’t unusual (hopefully we can keep this economic war but that’s not yet assured)…..the past has shown just how far people go (West and East) to protect and try keep their power.
The roadmaps show several paths but this direction is clear. The next few years economic shift will be something to tell our great grandkids about. When the world discovered it doesn’t matter how many pounds/dollars/euros you print…you can’t print food, energy or commodities and that’s where true wealth will shift.
I may or may not support unions but in a year or two that is small fry….this market will rally with all the pretend fiat money swishing around and then it will crash, timing of course is always the tricky part.
As I say though, for those more interested in BT…telecoms are actually well place generically to combat inflation with a lot of hard investment already done (pre inflation) and premiums to nudge up each year. It will be a wobbly one all round mind….not every telecom business will do well.
Yours
Lonevanker. (Cheers…I like that)
" I’ve already said in previous posts, feel free to educate yourself in reading them."
"It’s not all about pay there’s other issues which people are 100% not happy about ie £500 of shares promised each year (now gone) no share save for last 2 years which was a way of saving, forced redundancy changed from 2 years to 12 months after it was promised after they shut down the pension scheme with no consultation, the new one is trash compared basically loosing thousands"
Ok, I've read back and I've pasted your comment above. I'll try and see if I can find some reasoning behind changes.
First the £500 free shares:
Last March this was released
"Under this plan BT would pay £1,000 immediately in cash and £500 in shares after 3-years (the £500 share payment is a discretionary award made under their previously announced yourshare scheme), which they say is equivalent to about 5% of the average salary for a front-line worker on their team.
The operator says that this “generous offer” is being made despite BT freezing pay across the company and ongoing, unresolved discussions with the trade unions over its transformation and modernisation plans. Indeed, earlier this month the Communications Workers Union (CWU) announced that they had “taken the decision to move to an official national industrial action ballot“."
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/03/strike-threatened-bt-in-gbp1500-covid-bonus-to-59000-staff.html
It appears that the CWU and BT have been at odds for well over a year, and the Union appear to believe they have some right to dictate the company's future strategy. Any changes to benefits are likely down to disagreements between the CWU and BT management.
Sharesaves aren't a right, and any employee wishing to invest in BT could still do so through the Directshare scheme, the Yourshare scheme is apparently a bonus scheme based on company performance, up to a maximum of £500 in shares a year, not guaranteed.
"Our DirectShare scheme lets you easily buy shares from BT Group. You can contribute anything from between £10 and £1800 a year, and because it comes directly from your gross salary, it’s a tax efficient way to invest."
"YourShare is another way that you can be a part of the wider success of Openreach and BT Group. The exact value will depend on the performance of the Group as a whole, but each year we’ll offer up to £500 of shares to every member of the Openreach team."
https://www.openreach.com/careers/life-at-openreach/benefits
Maximum 12 month redundancy payout is now standard across UK Blue Chip companies. I myself was made redundant two years before I was due to retire, and received 4 weeks for every year worked up to a maximum of 10 years, with 3 months notice on top, ie a total of 12 months redundancy pay. Complaining about a reduction in redundancy payout from a maximum of two years to One Year will gain no sympathy from anyone.
Fleecy I’ve already said in previous posts, feel free to educate yourself in reading them.
"as I’ve said you know bugger all
About the workforce having never worked there I tell you what go to the picket line and ask them if it’s just the pay rise see what they say."
Clearly I'm not going to visit a picket line, so why don't you educate me GRS? I'm interested to know what the reasons are if it isn't about pay.
What I would say is that the people manning the pickets are the most motivated, and may not represent the consensus view. Clearly the few who are manning the picket lines are left leaning, and of an activist ilk.
Fleecy as I’ve said you know bugger all
About the workforce having never worked there I tell you what go to the picket line and ask them if it’s just the pay rise see what they say. CWU are saying its the pay rise yes but there’s so much more , rather then sprout telecom verbal nonsense that the average engineer really couldn’t give a monkeys about actually speak to them to find out,
"for the 10 millionth time it’s not just about pay"
If it isn't about pay you should contact the CWU and tell them to change their public statements.
"Over 40,000 BT Group workers to hold a two-day national strike against real-terms pay cuts"
"The dispute centres on workers opposing the imposition by the business of a far-below-inflation, flat-rate, £1,500pa pay settlement on employees,"
https://www.cwu.org/news/bt-group-members-set-to-strike-on-29-july-1-august/
The Union keeps saying it's about pay, are you saying it's about something else?
Another strategy they employed at that time was to pull out vital workers and let the rest pay into a fund to pay them. I think it was that which made the company come to heel in the end.
It doesn't look to me like BT are going to crack. Let's wait untill the cold weather comes to see who cracks first, if it goes that far. The CWU could be mistaken for the Labour party.