London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
People here saying cwu desperate and that low paid will lose out are clearly biased towards their dividend return.
The pay offer is low and there is scope for Bt to offer a little more to avoid strike , dependent on the ballot outcome. The cwu can’t get what they want without it affecting dividend increases as planned but a bit more can be obtained to compromise and still not affect the dividend plan.
Low paid get 8% higher paid minimum 3.5%. The union said they accept rises should be skewed to low paid. They will negotiate a flat rate of , eg, £1750 or a One off bonus on top of the £1500, meaning more lower paid secure 10% and the higher paid end up with a minimum 4%.
All dependent on ballot , which the union will win, as the workers support them now more than they dud in this last ballot which was a resounding win.
I hope for compromise, move on and look forward to divi increases over the next couple years on route to successful
2025 delivery and a high share price return.
Talk about desperate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2sqFciE1KM
I wonder if they'll get prosecuted for putting up that big banner outside Philip Jansen's property. I bet they took it down straight after filming, as I can't imagine the local council will put up with that.
How come Sarah can afford to strike, yet she can't afford to put food on the table? Apparently.
The narrative they're pushing, is Vote yes and BT will give in, but I think 10% is a fantasy figure. I can't imagine BT would give a 10% pay rise, and I reckon the Government would frown on any company giving a 10% pay rise.
In the event that BT gave in to the union, awarding a 10% pay rise, the civil service, council workers, Doctors, Nurses, and Bob the Builder would all demand the same; Before you know it, the country would be plunged into a wage-price inflationary spiral, and as I said previously, the only real tool the BOE has to fight inflation is raising interest rates. In the event of a wage-price inflationary spiral, benefits would also have to rise to keep up; Mortgage rates, and rents, would also likely go through the roof (pun intended), wiping out any wage increases mortgage holders and renters may secure.
I think BT will stick to their guns personally, and on the quiet the Government will tell them to. If it looks like the Unions are collectivelly pushing for strike action acroos all industry, ie a general strike, it wouldn't surprise me if we see legislation to further diminish the unions.
Yes and I remember working 7 days a week for 3 months getting there service back onto BT
Anyone remember these?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionica_(company)
"Even many of the managers are backing us , i can confirm this is actually happening"
Probably the ones with one foot out of the door. I've listened to, and read, much of the dialogue and comments in relation to this. One comment I read was someone stating the company would fold at the first hint of a strike, since it would cost a fortune in compensation when faults don't get fixed, etc, and Ofcom would be on BT's back to resolve the strike; Obviously that person has never heard of Force Majeure; It is now common practice for commercial contracts to include industrial action and strikes as defined force majeure events.
As I stated previously a strike makes no sense, unless you're one of the older employee's approaching retirement with your mortgage paid off, and a hefty amount in savings. I would suggest a strike doesn't make sense for lower paid workers, with mortgages, possibly student debt, and a reasonable percentage pay rise already.
I'm not so sure the CWU are confident they'll get a majority in favour of striking, irrespective of the cost of living increases. My guess is that a strike wont happen, but I haven't spoken to anyone in BT/Openreach, so it's purely a guess based on common sense.
Desperados
Even many of the managers are backing us , i can confirm this is actually happening
https://www.cwu.org/news/pay-defiance-at-one-braham-as-cwu-gears-up-for-the-biggest-union-meeting-ever/?fbclid=IwAR1tNPSivVx-N_Bxfn4WfF8laREPHaDNsdaWw1iujs9Fi6gI2L3Mmcw5p3s
Unions are not just about strikes , BT has only ever had 1 national strike since its creation . I have seen many people over the years , whos jobs have been saved , with union assistance , when rogue managers over step the mark.
Solidarity Brothers (and sisters)
"If I were earning circa £20-£25k, I wouldn’t be paying into a union, I’d have better and more pressing things to spend my money on. So who are the unions fighting for??" - They are fighting to justify their existance and keep themselves in a job Larry -
If I were earning circa £20-£25k, I wouldn’t be paying into a union, I’d have better and more pressing things to spend my money on. So who are the unions fighting for??
"You are very much mistaken Wetherboy , the EE call centre workers are on less then 20k/annum."
If that's correct then the £1500 pay rise, they've been awarded, is over 7.5% for them. Would you go on strike, lose pay, and lose pension contributions for the possibility that you may get another 2.5%?
Would the CWU draw a line in the sand at 10%, or would they accept less in negotiation? Because if they eventually settled for say 8%, then the lower paid staff would hardly notice a difference, but they'd notice the amount lost in pay on account of the strike.
The CWU have probably picked a fight, without the moral high ground. The lower paid staff will lose the most, and benefit least from a strike. Will the CWU threaten BT every year, asking for exorbitant pay rises under the threat of strike action? If it was me, I'd either vote against striking, or throw the ballot paper in the bin, but that's just me. Don't get me wrong, I was once a member of the CWU myself, and I do believe in collective bargaining, but I'm totally against strikes.
You are very much mistaken Wetherboy , the EE call centre workers are on less then 20k/annum. And it looks like the BT call centre people will eventually earn a similar wage , as they will , in the future work for EE (corporate division)
I was intending to be away for 30 days but I saw this from the CWU and just had to laugh. They do sound desperate.
'"While BT Group created even better profits than was expected, many workers who made that profit rely on food banks and don't know how they will pay their bills.'
I reckon you could count the number of BT employees that rely on food banks on one hand. CWU sounds deluded..
"Quite, BeeTee. But how dare you question the motives of this board's most prolific poster/cutter and paster. You'll get short shrift from that little MF. Wait for his response and you'll see what I mean :)"
Lol, is that the best you can come up with. I'd suggest you increase your medication Handy.
"Hi fleccy , how does (Meta VS CMA) affect BT? Not sure i understand"
It goes back to previous threads, where the discussion centered around regulators gearing up to regulate the Fangs. Ofcom are also in the midst of a fact finding mission around Net Neutrality, looking at the amount of bandwidth the Tech Giants consume, and if their business models are discounted by Telecom providers having to invest more to cope with the amount of data.
Thanks for the tip off Mandy , in fact I didn't send my previous post , someone hacked my account and sent it
Quite, BeeTee. But how dare you question the motives of this board's most prolific poster/cutter and paster. You'll get short shrift from that little MF. Wait for his response and you'll see what I mean :)
Hi fleccy , how does (Meta VS CMA) affect BT? Not sure i understand
"The Competition Appeal Tribunal (CAT) has upheld the Competition and Markets Authority’s (CMA) decision on 5 of the 6 challenged grounds.
CMA Chief Executive Andrea Coscelli said:
We welcome this resounding endorsement by the Competition Appeal Tribunal of the CMA’s approach to reviewing mergers that may harm innovation. Innovation is a vital part of the competitive process, particularly in digital markets. We also welcome the Tribunal’s endorsement of the ‘care and careful consideration’ given to this issue by the independent Inquiry Group in this case.
This judgment helps reinforce our ability to protect competition and innovation in digital markets.
Last December, Meta launched an appeal against the CMA’s decision that Meta’s acquisition of Giphy would lead to a substantial lessening of competition. Following an in-depth investigation, the CMA had found that Meta’s purchase of Giphy would reduce competition between social media platforms and had already removed Giphy as a potential challenger in the display advertising market in the UK. The CMA’s decision required Meta to sell Giphy to a purchaser approved by the CMA.
The Tribunal handed down its judgment on Meta’s appeal today. The Tribunal upheld the CMA’s decision on 5 of the 6 challenged grounds. In particular, the CAT had “no hesitation” in concluding that the CMA’s finding that the merger between Meta and Giphy substantially reduced dynamic competition was lawful. Dynamic competition is what leads firms to innovate, through a process of creating new, better products for consumers over time. Giphy had created a new form of advertising using gifs in messaging, called paid alignment, which the Court agreed was driving dynamic competition that was lost when Meta bought Giphy.
The Tribunal only found in Meta’s favour in relation to the treatment of certain third-party confidential information. The Tribunal considered that the CMA’s approach to disclosure in this case overly favoured confidentiality concerns of third parties. The impact of this on the CMA’s decision will be determined in due course."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cat-endorses-cma-assessment-that-meta-s-purchase-of-giphy-harms-competition
Th judgement's in:
"For the reasons given in the Judgment, the Tribunal unanimously dismissed all of Meta’s Grounds except part of Ground 4. The Tribunal decided that:
In relation to Ground 1, the CMA correctly directed itself to the test it had to apply and the decision made by the CMA was one that it was entitled to make.
In relation to Ground 2, the CMA acted rationally in order to put itself in a position properly to apply the substantial lessening of competition test in a case of dynamic competition.
As regards Ground 3, the CMA’s conclusions as to the counterfactual are, as conclusions in relation the static competition position, unassailable.
In respect of the first element of Ground 4, the Tribunal doubted whether the CMA can be criticised for making insufficient inquiries of any person assuming there was proper consultation and saw no basis for suggesting that the CMA’s investigation was impeachable on a judicial review. In respect of the second element of Ground 4, the CMA failed to properly consult and wrongly excised portions from the Decision.
Ground 4A fails as the named individual members of the CMA group are not expected to personally conduct a merger investigation and personally draft the CMA’s provisional findings and final decision.
Ground 5 is dismissed as it is predicated on a successful challenge to the Horizontal SLC and the Tribunal has concluded that Meta’s substantive challenges to the Horizontal SLC in Grounds 1 to 3 all fail.
On the basis that the CMA’s decisions regarding the Horizontal and Vertical SLCs are unimpeachable, Ground 6 fails as ss.35 and 41 EA02 confer a broad and wide discretion on the CMA in crafting remedies in relation to completed mergers and the remedies ordered by the CMA were not irrational and well within its remedial powers.
This is an unofficial summary prepared by the Registry of the Competition Appeal Tribunal."
https://www.catribunal.org.uk/judgments/142941221-meta-platforms-inc-v-competition-and-markets-authority-judgment-14-jun-2022
You got that one the wrong way round, Pete :)
Appointments to the Order of the Garter are personally made by Her Majesty The Queen.
You may wish to remember that and not joke about such an important investiture with comments about her third eldest.
As Sir Tony Blair becomes a member of The Order of the Garter, the audience of the London Hippodrome can be heard shouting 'He's behind you'.
Bkkbkk....Not sure if Mr Drahi could have done anything before tomorrow as couldn't make a bid for 6 months that ends tomorrow ....And he did purchase 6% under the radar to take his holding to 18%....interesting times
I think tomorrow is to early to find out what drahi is up to, his waited all this time his not going
To bolt out as soon as the trap is open he will leave everyone guessing , and sit back and watch the headless chickens run around. When he is ready he will make his move not before.
Pull out / Takeover that's the question . But surely if he's going for pull out best option is to
Go through the motion of a takeover up the sp price doing so then pull out with a very nice profit. All speculation only time will tell.