Charles Jillings, CEO of Utilico, energized by strong economic momentum across Latin America. Watch the video here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Fonzoo
I spent an hour or so with 2 Bosch guys at CES show in Vegas in Jan. They seemed to think DMS was still SEE & said they had customers already with it. Seemed genuine on it.
Cheers
Terry
The whole Bosch thing is fascinating. Rarely see or hear from them in this space and they don't seem to be winning much. Probably a blessing in disguise that bid was rejected.
We were at ces with Bosch and vw that year then 2018 Bosch reputedly put an offer in for us which was turned down, then they never seem to be mentioned with us anymore?
https://www.gearbrain.com/bosch-ai-driver-monitoring-2644283784.html
Red
Yes totally agree. Just depends if talking just DMS basics or better. Sure once protocols come out we will mop up in most/all the hands free driving space but i presume one model will be offered with various options of all the tech including cabin monitoring that the OEMs seem to like.
Very interesting thanks TLS. Was just thinking the same reading that release pack; I look forward to the top spec Plus reviews!
It's certainly all pointing our direction at the moment, and it's positive to see a number of cases now where our competitors had established a clear entry advantage... And now potentially have completely lost to our technological prowess.
As red says this no doubt would have been heavily influenced by the NCAP regulations that entered into the fray between then and now.
In my opinion, PM would not be ‘liking’ ID3 related posts if it did not contain SEE tech.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/christiansteinert_connected-car-volkswagen-wieder-innovativster-activity-6710904739665711104-MRtw
Terry
If it is Level 2 + you order, in Europe, the US and elsewhere it would be very dangerous (litigation) to have anything other than a DMS /DSM with very high availability.
Add on to that, not too far in the future, legislation /regulation comes into play and is SEEs friend. Remember SEE was the only such provider involved with NCAP and word is NCAP ain't going soft so others, potentially all, will struggle in Europe regardless of level 2 or above.
Fonzoo,
Good find that Valeo slide pack. Certainly, they have a lot of input on the ID3, but I took that as being on the drive train side. They do show their A-pillar design as being unique, but not much about the capabilities of DMS. There is the video mocked up in a Peugeot, but the AR was pretty generic.
So far the ID3 reviews haven't shown the full capabilities. We know it has a AR component:
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/everything-you-need-know-about-volkswagen-id3 :
You won’t find a frunk under there, though – the space is taken up by the aircon unit, a 15-litre box required for the augmented reality head-up display hardware (think whizzy satnav from the A-Class with graphics overlaid onto a front-facing-camera feed, but projected onto the windscreen, although we’re yet to actually have a play) and a jumble of power electronics.
and we had the demonstrations in CES 2017 with Seeing Machines. Compare that to today:
From the ID3 press release https://uploads.volkswagen-newsroom.com/system/production/uploaded_files/16185/file/0ecf6bebc8b7bd3398b559eb14951f54b1810840/The_new_ID_3_-_International_Media_Drive.pdf?1595402445
Augmented reality head-up display. The optional augmented reality headup display (included in the Infotainment “Plus” package) is a world first in the ID.3. This can project important information onto the windscreen with the turn arrows of the navigation system underneath. The driver sees the information as a three-dimensional, staggered image at an apparent
distance of three to ten metres in front of the vehicle. This means that *the display is perfectly integrated into the real outside world*. When Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) or Travel Assist (optional) is active, *the vehicle in front of the ID.3 is highlighted with a luminous marking in the head-up display from a certain speed*
I *highlighted* the key points. Tracking the vehicle in front and highlighting it in AR using HUD - that needs accurate and fast eye tracking with perfect availability. That spells SEE to me.
I suspect that the reviewers haven't had access to a "Plus" model yet. and we know that their software is delayed but will be delivered in an over the air release (next year)
Fonzoo
The problem is OEMs will have upto 3 suppliers so one model even depending on Specs could have 2 suppliers depending on what version/upgrades you order.
The waters are even muddier than you can imagine.
SEYE Level 2+? After Porsche, Audi et al, unless it includes at least 2 camera's which increases the cost it hasn't got the availability, would be similar to Tesla Autopilot /FSD.
Could be wrong but I ca see it happening
On the other hand, SEYE demonstrated with Valeo at CES 2018, and Valeo's investor presentation very clearly state their customers and design wins (ID3 included):
https://www.valeo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/valeo-investor-day-2019_Partie2.pdf
On a side note, supporting SEE sneaking in; the DMS marketing from Valeo does seem very 1st gen/basic. Take below for example (which by the way probably answers the PSA conundrum discussed on here not long ago) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W00M1i2bxDE
Thats not us.
So again, it would be another sure sign of who will dominate should SEE have snuck in here for the ID3 considering its clearly got a strong valeo/siemens platform.
Shallwe
They dont have a Tier 1 like Veoneer or Qualcomm i guess, or whoever thats under. Gagging orders in Auto seem pretty normal as they go around mopping up business in stealth mode.
Frustrating i know but our day comes. Just have to let them do whats needed without their competition knowing :)
Maybe it's me, but I find it very strange and slightly upsetting that Cerence can shout from the rooftops that they have their #conversaionalAI in the new VW ID.3, but SEE have to keep their mouths shut at all times until we are told otherwise. As the car is on the road, surely SEE would be allowed to say something if they were in it, or is it because the DMS is coming in their later models and therefore everyone has to keep mum?
I got in a flap when Jc posted finally a rival has landed, then u watched the video and all became clear.
So the evidence points to SEE having bagged primacy in another semi-autonomous system. To accompany:
GM
Ford
FCA
BMW
Mercedes
Byton
+ probably others.
Hopefully PM’s “comfortable” with well over 30% of the market...
Everything takes years, so CES 2017 gives us some clues
Exhibit A) SM in a VW concept
https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20170105006026/en/Machines’-FOVIO-Unit-Announces-Technology-Demostrations-2017
Exhibit B) VW concept was ID range
https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/news/2017/01/CES_2017.html
Is it fair to say that PM doesn’t stray too far from the beaten track when it comes to his social media ‘likes’? I don’t believe he does. I can’t recollect him ever ‘liking’ a car with competition tech in.
The previous 3 posts go some way to suggesting SEE are in the ID3. Exciting times ahead.
PM has liked this Cerence Inc post regarding the ID3.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/cerence_conversationalai-electricvehicles-voice-activity-6711992639434170368-Bz3Y
In future updates the dark lower 1/4 of the display might well come alive with 'enhanced sensing' capabilities.
Volkswagen ID3 1st edition full review - finally a real rival has landed
19.10m
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GsXSO97hr8
IMO you can't have a level 2+ car unless you have advanced DMS, so who is the supplier for VW ?
https://www.mobileye.com/blog/understanding-l2-in-five-questions/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=post&utm_term=organic
"A Volkswagen L2+ vehicle with enhanced sensing and improved control (implemented by VW) is expected in near future"