Member Info for TheLongestShot

why does lse make everything a bit ****.

i paste perfectly formatted message with appropriate capitalisation, and it is fine until it is posted.

you can find me back in tele gram

there will be "factory fitted" dms in every truck. volvo, man, mercedes etc right down to coach built buses.

the high volume trucks will have one from tier-1, at the bottom of the volume range, they can install aftermarket.

why did see not go after high volume dms through a t1 - simply because our partners don't generally do trucks. why would we want to chase 5 or 10 quid on a relatively low volume of vehicles when we can sell a tiny volume of gen 3 and make 100+ each with no customisation required. especially, when you can then get the chance of 30 quid per month for 10 years. even 10% conversion to services on wrightbus or dennis is a very lucrative deal (and they will be working very hard to get far more - council buys 6 bin lorries, then they get a call and now can upsell to all the gritters, vans, school buses, mini buses etc) .

as stu says, how can we sell dms if they are already installed?

well, as others have said. trucks last 10-15 years. so in 5 years most still won't have it.

they will remain with top tier haulier for the first 5 or so years. if they have the safety case, it pays to disable the factory fit and fit the tools they need - whether that is external cameras and sensors, dash cams linked to telematics and terminals or apps on phones for routing and tracking and even sign off of deliveries with the customer. dms is certainly in this category.

just look at what tfl mandates for buses.

this is where paul will win, the long slow corporate grind. gold plated once your name is on the list of mandated equipment. looks expensive, but blanket coverage across the fleet pays back in reduced incidents, no one says take them out once they are in.

the threat of the million dollar claim is what makes installing them cost effective.

the tick box solutions that **** off your drivers and make retention harder - that is a fool's saving

What happened to the capitalisation?

I used capital letters and full stops. But they didn't survive the copy and paste!

there will be "factory fitted" dms in every truck. volvo, man, mercedes etc right down to coach built buses.

the high volume trucks will have one from tier-1, at the bottom of the volume range, they can install aftermarket.

why did see not go after high volume dms through a t1 - simply because our partners don't generally do trucks. why would we want to chase 5 or 10 quid on a relatively low volume of vehicles when we can sell a tiny volume of gen 3 and make 100+ each with no customisation required. especially, when you can then get the chance of 30 quid per month for 10 years. even 10% conversion to services on wrightbus or dennis is a very lucrative deal (and they will be working very hard to get far more - council buys 6 bin lorries, then they get a call and now can upsell to all the gritters, vans, school buses, mini buses etc) .

as stu says, how can we sell dms if they are already installed?

well, as others have said. trucks last 10-15 years. so in 5 years most still won't have it.

they will remain with top tier haulier for the first 5 or so years. if they have the safety case, it pays to disable the factory fit and fit the tools they need - whether that is external cameras and sensors, dash cams linked to telematics and terminals or apps on phones for routing and tracking and even sign off of deliveries with the customer. dms is certainly in this category.

just look at what tfl mandates for buses.

this is where paul will win, the long slow corporate grind. gold plated once your name is on the list of mandated equipment. looks expensive, but blanket coverage across the fleet pays back in reduced incidents, no one says take them out once they are in.

the threat of the million dollar claim is what makes installing them cost effective.

the tick box solutions that **** off your drivers and make retention harder - that is a fool's saving

Opel Astra with very blinky A-pillar DMS

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=leVN7ztXtCA&pp=ygUPT3BlbCBBc3RyYSAyMDI22

Similar to the Renault Clio

https://youtu.be/DA7yFA3QGQY?si=dBlAB6AcoD2b3Owg

Our KPIs are about to "V1 rotate"

Hi JC, good find.

So Magna mirror had a flaw, it couldn't see the front seat, passengers legs.

Shouldn't be a problem they are are safe in the footwell, aren't they?

Well, unless they have their feet on the dashboard, which in the event of an accident can be "messy" especially when the air bag deploys.

So risk adverse OEMs need a way to detect this to prevent the legs been thrown into the path of the head.

So that explains the periscope, or a second downward facing camera for OMS.

Of course we may not spot it from the outside, as it may be hidden within an IR transparent part of the mirror body

Hi JC, thanks for finding this

Sometimes the simplest solutions are good enough

Harman (Samsung) already bought the rump of Cipia's DMS business when they ran out of money earlier in the year.

https://news.harman.com/releases/harman-acquires-assets-of-intelligent-sensing-solutions-leader-cipia

They will try to cross sell, but that won't happen anytime soon. Integrating the two businesses comes first - good luck.

There is a reason why ZF sold their ADAS and why Cipia ran out of money

It has to be one of these:

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/SEE/new-tier-one-contract-takes-oem-customers-to-10-255itsuyozqeo8w.html

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/SEE/seeing-machines-awarded-additional-oem-program-fjifwa1ymf0evbm.html

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/SEE/seeing-machines-awarded-additional-oem-program-9rf0uw7dd5sgveu.html

100% Seeing Machines.

Look at the differences in flashing rates at different times in the video. That is what one of the recent patents was about.

New Jeep Compass has Level 2 we have already seen the videos with DMS LEDs

Jeep Compass 2026 https://g.co/kgs/yfLmkwn

Starts production soon on Italy. It was unveiled in May.

This was the RNS that was "led out of North America "

Several other Stellantis models share the same platform.

STLA Medium

Peugeot e-3008 III (e-P64, 2023–present)

Peugeot e-5008 III (e-P67, 2024–present)

Opel Grandland II (2024–present)

Citroën C5 Aircross II (CR3, 2025-)[18]

Jeep Compass III (J4U, 2025, upcoming)[19]

DS N°8 (D85, 2025-)

DS N°7 (2025, upcoming)

Lancia Gamma (2026, upcoming)

Alfa Romeo Giulietta (2028, upcoming)[20]

Lancia Delta (2028, upcoming)

Citroen 5 Aircross 2025 has DMS. It launched in April

https://youtu.be/KF5FGMXhK6I?si=lm2IExIjvd_IZPO7

First of all, thanks JC for posting these over the years when they were merely patend pending.

Some real beauties.

I love the LED blocking test. By changing the brightness of the LEDs and checking they can detect the pattern in the images.

Also getting a patent for using cameras to detect tiredness in pilots and using that to control crew rest periods and to inform the pilots is crucial to keep the Collins development unique

Audi launched their new Q3 model and it has Magna mirror DMS

LEDs seen at 10s and around 1:12

Sells 230k per year!

https://youtu.be/sW1N2QfkisY?si=dMUf6fgI9_NYS_I7

(or as this is Seeing Machines, there is already a DMS win for Valeo with Mercedes, so why bother telling the shareholders about an extension that starts in 2028 ie imminently)

Highway Pilot = Mercedes

Hands off, eyes off. Means DMS in the vehicle. Valeo wouldn't mention HO-EO, if they weren't providing it.

Who does DMS for Valeo?

It is T1 award season. Do you think that Merc would tell the T1 about their wins over weeks and months, or sign for all wins on that platform on one day.

Now the question is how long until they tell the T2 for the DMS?

I expect no likes from SEE on this story until there is a RNS.

Any chance of an RNS?

Eyes off 😍

https://www.valeo.com/en/valeo-wins-major-imaging-radar-program-for-automated-driving-from-premium-global-automaker/

I'm no Colin, but here are my thoughts, riffing off (not ripping off) his title.

Fast forward a bit and some of you have 7 digits in the bank, so now you need to fill the garage and decide on splashing 2—300k on a super car or perhaps a little less for a fancy sports car or maybe just a Caterham.

Now unless you are Alex Roy doing the Cannonball Run, you are not going to be wanting to fill the dash with aftermarket boxes. Why spend themoney to look good then make it look like an Uber.

Had a car in the 80's then you will remember the slot for the stereo. They didn't entirely vanish, they just grew. But OEMs hid these double/triple height slots with integral screens and buttons that hid the shape and size of the "head-unit" slot.

High end cars with low volume production can't afford entirely custom head units so their infotainment will still come from one of the Tier 2s, but with customised printing on the outside facia and suitable logos in the graphics on the screen.

So could Smart Eye AIS or Guardian Gen 3 fill the slot? Hmm, now, I'm not an expert, but these devices are electromagnetically tested for emissions, you can't just take them out of their cases. And from hands on time with Gen 3 the ventilation isn't set up for filling a stereo slot. It would need a redesign so that there were no gaps at the front.

Here comes the tricky part. Plastic.

It has to look integral with the rest of the vehicle. Whether that is shiny, matt or soft touch. Flat or curved, shape and feel of the buttons and even the screen shape and what appears on it has to be 100% compatible with the ethos of the car's design or you just put a sows ear next to your silk purse.

Fast forward 10 years, it has to age as gracefully as the vehicle it is in. Now you might say an Italian car will need lots of fixing in that timescale, perhaps but it will still be beautifully designed, so you can't ruin it with aftermarket.

Now if Smart Eye have done a good job with a small compact self contained device with no user interface that can be hidden behind opaque plastic then the car maker may be able to find a suitable flattish area that is driver facing.

But my preferred option is to kill two birds with one stone. Rear view mirrors aren't going away, even if they have a screen attached to a camera.

Any one thought of putting DMS into the mirror?...

Aaroon, you hit the nail on the head. DMS is in their bright shiny NVidia chip, not in the mirror.

Camera behind a mirror and LED in the mirror are a known technology.

What was the "impossible" problem was getting the camera, LEDs, processing in the same movable box the sue of a "mobile phone" , wait that is common technology too.

Have it working to automotive temperature ranges, 12 hours in the Sun in Arizona could be 50C and it needs to turn on and be blasted by AC.

Then it needs to be frozen to - 20C and turn on.

It needs to survive for 15 years with minimal failure rate. And operate on 3W and still be ready when the key is first turned.

OK, phone guys are worried now, they can't promise software that long and their kit was designed for far shorter hardware life because they want you to upgrade.

Ok, killer punch less than $100* for hardware and software. *let's say for arguement, I havent any evidence than Paul's quote of $10 software being defended by saving 10bucks on $80 hardware

That just counted out the competition.

You see cost, quality and performance. It takes a lot of time and money to get them all right at the same time, and one more thing - the only way to amortize the up front cost is to make them by the 10 million, year after year after year.

Maps, what is Volvo's annual expected sales for EX90 and ES90? Or the whole of Volvo even?

The Swedes have built a high cost bespoke solution for a relatively low volume high end car.

It may be equal or better as they don't need to optimise so much with all the Tops available on the NVidia chip, but it hasn't the volume and they don't have more money so the payback for the effort invested isn't there.

A high end car made to sell for £70-80k is still made to a budget, so SEYE won't get fat on low volume, but the NRE stopped them from starving

. And Nvidia isn't known for being cheep

Thanks JC.

Just from a quick look at the pictures, this is well progressed.

They plan to merge their video display with DMS into a single mirror unit (due to the screen the DMS camera and LED are in the chin rather than behind the glass)

They also intend to run off the or reduce the displays if they identify that the driver is interacting for too long, this means that the passenger will not be affected if they are interacting rather than the driver