Member Info for ToffAppleton1

Pick any time period to support your point of view.

Was it late nineties when BT hit £15?

Toff

“This obviously played a part in yesterdays weak 0.95% share price movement, not forgetting the 12.77% rise the previous day”

I did say yesterday I was looking at the wider picture not a myopic one. The fact is BT has fallen a good 35 percent since the election three and a half months ago. It was plunging long before the virus became a threat. I’m positioning my holdings with a rebound in mind, and I don’t believe BT is a share that will climb when it happens. Telecoms are somewhat of a defensive play so that factor lends support to BT right now, but when “risk on’ returns to the market I believe it will get left behind.

As for losing money - I lost money months ago not yesterday when I sold them. All this nonsense about paper losses and long term investment doesn’t fly with me.

Long term for BT is £5 to £1.30
This long term illusion on a losing position is loser’s solace.
A paper losses can become a bigger paper loss. Fleecy was talking about it as a paper loss at £3 at £2 and at £1.30. And if it fell to £0.80 he’d still be talking about paper losses and in being it for the long term. But the long term can also exceed some people’s lifetime.

Stocks are just the same as any other asset. They are valued by the marketplace. If fleecy paid £500,000 for a house and it’s only valued at £130,000 now. Then that’s exactly how much you’d get for it.
And that’s exactly what it amounts to with BT for those in denial.

Toff

Fleecy

‘I think you and Lamtree can join Smartass on my filter list, i've had enough’

Really?
Was it something I said?

As regards the user name - I do tap fleccy into the keypad. But my smart ass iPhone doesn’t recognize the word and changes it to fleecy. That’s predictive texting for you.

Smartphones are fast idiots!

As time is a restriction I can’t switch off the predictive texting so it’ll have to remain that way.

So fleecy it is.

But I don’t see why you should let a triviality like that come between us. .

Toff

NDN

‘Toff. Sorry but I agree with Fleccy if the dividend was cut, it also would have no impact on my lifestyle’

No need for apologies. It’s your money you’re free to do as you chose with it.

I’m a short term trader not a long term investor so my criteria differs. I look for stocks that rise aggressively in rising markets such as miners.

I hope BT comes good but it doesn’t fit my criteria because the market is very bearish about the stock.

For what it’s worth I do think the market has got it wrong and BT is undervalued, but I’m not about to pick a fight with a great white shark because I know I can’t win. Going against market sentiment can cost you dear.

You have to remember that humans are a herd species and markets exemplify that. If you go against the herd you’re likely to get trampled over.

Look at crypto currencies. No intrinsic value. Worthless in my opinion. But there’s enough morons to give them very high values. I guess it’s like the poppies In the 19th century - imaginary value. But believe me - one day all that crypto crap will be worthless.

Bubbles are created by herds. You shouldn’t ignore bubbles. There’s fortunes to be made from them if you can get your timing right. You just don’t want to be there when they burst.

Toff

What makes today’s fall all the more galling is that it fell in large volumes- which reinforces its southerly direction.

Volume about 94 million
Average volume -37 million

Always a red flag
A sell signal

When a share falls in high volumes.

More falls tomorrow?

Only a fool would bet against it.

The market must have found out I sold for it to go down on a day like this.

Toff

Lam

“Take the NKorean approach and filter away fleccy,you can have your very own dictatorship.“

If Fleecy filters us out he’ll had the board all to himself.

Along with his partner in spam, Velo
It’s a double act.

Toff

Fleecy

“if every one of our investments cut the dividend to zero, it would have zero effect on our lifestyle.”

Oh stop it won’tcha
This is getting ludicrous.

Your posts sound like Monty Python sketches
BT falls on a day when the market rises 246 points and you come on here with an alternate version of reality trying to convince everyone that BT is the best thing since sliced bread

. Stop it can’tcha, it’s just so obviously over the top. You’re living in LaLa Land

Don’tcha know you could be making tons on money now the market is rebounding if you’d put it on almost any other share except BT?

No amount of pontificating is going to make your losses disappear.

Get real
And stop posting spam

I say spam because your posts don’t have the slightest semblance of reality. It’s Walter Mitty reading a Monty Python script. Enough!

You don’t really have any BT share do ya?
You’re just on here for amusement aren’tcha?

Toff

Fleecy

“but for any new investors, why do you argue there's no value at the current price?”

I’m sure new investors like old investors would like to put their money in a stock that’s likely to rise.

And that stock is not BT. It must be sickening for anyone owning the share to see it fall on a day when the ftse has had one of its biggest ever rises.

Doesn’t really give them much hope does it.
All those other stocks in the ftse which rose 7-10 percent today. That’s money to traders Fleecy. And having your money tied up in a perennial loser is not only money lost but money that could have been put on a winner. So it’s a Double-Down-Loser.

BT has been an investment tragedy for all involved
A titanic disaster. My advice to anyone thinking about buying in is

There’s only one thing worse than losing, and that’s watching everyone else win while you lose.

Like BT today.

Ftse up 246 points
BT - falls yet again.

Ask yourself - do you really want a piece of this investment nightmare?

Toff

Fleecy

.” I could just keep collecting dividends”

That’s a false assumption. As we’ve seen over the past week or so, numerous companies have cancelled their dividends. Not cut - cancelled = 0
Dividends are never a certainty - they can disappear overnight.

With BT dividend affordability already stretched to the limit, the best you can hope for is a cut. The virus presents the board with a perfect pretext to cancel it and I can see that happening. So without a dividend BT would be an even less attractive proposition. I’ve seen all this dividend-swooning on these boards before - Debenhams- HMV - ITV but to name three. But they all ended up paying nothing.

I’m ruthless when it comes to stocks. No sentimental attachment or emotion. It’s all about making money now with me.

I’m giving my realistic view on BT; because I believe it myself I sold them today. What you’re doing is defending the indefensible. People who read these boards have a right to hear both sides and then decide for themselves. Your version of BT is an alternate reality, as far removed from the truth as it’s possible to get.

Toff

Fleecy

“With reference to the quote above, i don't consider being down on paper, a loss. In fact we bring in good dividends and much of the position adding is reinvestment. I don't agree with the market on the Telecom sector and will keep adding to my Telecom holdings while i see value”

Whichever way you cut your BT investment it’s been an unmitigated disaster, financial masochism, and the worst case of self-denial I’ve ever come across.

Repeatedly averaging down on a losing position is the absolute worst thing you can do. And being overweight in one stock or sector is a close second; especially when it’s the worst performing share in the market.

It may have passed your mind but over the last couple of days, a lot of stocks have risen precipitously and traders have made some good money. You still seem to view your BT splurge as the best stock out there even though you’ve made no monetary gains.

I’m sorry but speaking from a professional point of view - what you’ve done is truly awful. It’s a kamikaze investment. A tragedy on a biblical scale. A titanic failure. Reckless in the extreme. If you can put a positive spin on your BT adventure you could put a positive spin of anything - and I mean anything.

I know there’re lots of novices on these boards but I hope they won’t make the same catastrophic errors that you’ve made. Your BT investment tragedy belongs in a textbook exemplifying all the things not to do when trading.

You may be convincing yourself with your repeated attempts at validating it, but I doubt you’re convincing anyone else...

Or at least I hope not.

Toff

Fleecy

“Toff, BT rose 15.04p or 12.77% yesterday, outperforming the FTSE100 by 3.42%.”

I’m taking a wider view not a myopic one based on a one day timescale. BT has been a perennial under-performer for a couple of years now. If it’s not the worst performing stock in the ftse100 it must be extremely close. I remember advising my mom to sell them @374 which she did - to see them rise to 500 afterwards. But hey. That’s shares. 374 is almost three times what they are now. I wouldn’t advise her to buy now @132

I find it astounding that you continue adding to a losing position and compounding your losses.

The objective of an investment is to put money into an asset you believe will rise. BT hasn’t done that, but despite eye watering losses you repeatedly claim to be happy and ready to add more to your disastrous BT splurge.

You either Really enjoy losing money
Or you don’t have BT shares and you’re playing a gag on this board.

Toff

Sold the mofos @134.
Made a loss but boy - what a relief - does it feel good to be out.

As predicted three days ago miners and oil will lead the market rebound. BT will get left behind.

Bought some more Aviva shares with the proceeds @264

Money is too valuable to be wrapped up in capital eroding dogs. The mantra is simple - put your money into something that rises when markets rally.

Prediction- BT to finish down today

Toff

Memphis, Tennessee

Toff

No word from RBS that they’ll cancel their dividend (goes ex-dividend on Thursday) so that bodes well for Lloyds and Aviva. It’d be a bit rich if the government applied pressure on them to cancel the dividends after state owned RBS paid out.

But these are scumbags politicians. The government are coining £600 million from the latest RBS dividend so they had incentive not to cancel it.

I just hate it when slimy MPs try to politicize private companies for their own gain at shareholders expense. Traditionally Labor were the party that interfered with the private sector, but that mantle has now been taken over by the Tories, in their surge into dog-whistle politics and venal peddling.

Toff

Stagecoach (SGC.L), Go-Ahead (GOG.L), Kingfisher (KGF.L), and ITV (ITV.L) were among 10 UK listed firms who collectively slashed shareholder dividends by more than £500m on Monday.

The day’s wave of dividend cuts and suspensions brought the total so far this year to £1.5bn, as the coronavirus pandemic prompts companies to hoard cash and bolster their balance sheets.

“The pace of cuts is picking up, too, and more look inevitable as companies scramble to preserve cash and management teams accept their share prices are getting little or no support from any commitments to defend a dividend,” said Russ Mould, investment director of AJ Bell.

Last week, UK corporate behemoths William Hill (WMH.L) and Marks and Spencer (MKS.L) became just two of the dozens of firms that have cut dividends in 2020.

I’d like to see the scumbags who run these companies take a big pay cut, but they’re more likely to give themselves raises.

Toff

Stagecoach (SGC.L), Go-Ahead (GOG.L), Kingfisher (KGF.L), and ITV (ITV.L) were among 10 UK listed firms who collectively slashed shareholder dividends by more than £500m on Monday.

The day’s wave of dividend cuts and suspensions brought the total so far this year to £1.5bn, as the coronavirus pandemic prompts companies to hoard cash and bolster their balance sheets.

“The pace of cuts is picking up, too, and more look inevitable as companies scramble to preserve cash and management teams accept their share prices are getting little or no support from any commitments to defend a dividend,” said Russ Mould, investment director of AJ Bell.

Last week, UK corporate behemoths William Hill (WMH.L) and Marks and Spencer (MKS.L) became just two of the dozens of firms that have cut dividends in 2020.

I’d like to see the scumbags who run these companies take a big pay cut, but they’re more likely to give themselves raises.

Toff

Lam

“Debt only becomes a problem when you can’t make the repayments.”

Didn’t ya read my ‘debt post’ through?
Read it again and weep.

If the business model is broken, debt only serves to keep companies alive long after they expire. They don’t go broke because of debt, they go broke because their business is no longer relevant. In this day and age that’s usually down to the tide of technology.

That which is falling should also be pushed.

Toff

Fleecy

“The blitz against oil companies is more related to Saudi overproducing rather than a demand hit due to the Virus”

Absolutely. Right again. My view is that Putin purposely started an oil price war to destabilize the west. He saw the virus as an opportune moment to do so.

But the geopolitical landscape can change very quickly with oil. We could have a negative price shock next and oil could rise to $125 by the end of the year.

Oil producing countries are synonymous with political instability. Oil isn’t known as the devil’s excrement for nothing. One thing that’s always dominated oil prices is uncertainty. It’s still the lifeblood of the global economy and will be for years to come.

Toff

Fleecy

‘It's funny how debt is only a problem when the market wants to punish a sector’

You’re absolutely right.
What a lot of people on these boards don’t understand is that most companies thrive on debt.
Debt is a central to capitalism - it allows companies to expand - to grow - to prosper - to make acquisitions...

But to many on here debt is a four letter word.
It’s only because BT debt is widely known that it’s mentioned incessantly on this board. Unilever has a debt mountain but no one mentions that. And most other multinationals have debt mountains.

Markets are selective like that; especially when simple- minded retail investors pick up on what they perceive to be a negative statistic and quote it in every post.

Debt only becomes a problem when you can’t make the repayments. In today’s economic climate where it’s virtually free to borrow money debt is good. Microsoft and Apple both became what they are today because of DEBT.

The problem with these boards is - when debt is mentioned people think of personal debt - which is a burden on individuals- but corporate debt is a different beast. People can’t distinguish between the two because they don’t have the intelligence to think outside the parameters of their tiny minds Do some research - you’ll be astounded at how much most companies owe.

Gordon Gekko immortalized greed in his “greed is good” speech.

Toff Appleton goes one better with his

Debt is good mantra.

If you don’t understand that you don’t understand capitalism.

Toff

Typo

Should have been

“ha’penny worth”

How I hate misspelling and typos
I can’t bear to look at them.

Toff