Member Info for the_Chuz

Isn't o leary the guy who will pretty much endorse anything if you pay him, I don't mean that slanderous, I mean that as a genuine income stream fir him, you can book him to say stuff fir a price.

@limpalong

"Chuz, So in a nutshell you have issues with btc itself? I would humbly suggest that this definitely is not the space for you to be in if that is indeed the case, and that is meant in the most sincerest sense."

I am growing an issue with the mechanics of bitcoin with its never ending need for power and chips and vast sums of money to actually make the network work.

If the world used btc as its default currency then how many btc would be needed in the future to mine a btc, might sound like a daft question and it's obviously dependant on price but does the whole game only work if you use fiat to buy stuff to generate btc?

Although I am growing an issue with btc I'm not agsinst it, I am getting more of an issue with the futility of the race and just how much resource it consumes just for a miner to stand still.

Proof of stake surely must be the way forwards.

@limpalong

I can live in a house, I can play a game, I can use a washing machine, I can use commodities to make things, I can eat Lean hogs etc

What I can't do is spend btc that is hodl and considering btc is potentially a currency in its infancy then it is a currency that can't be spent, like a washing machine that can't be used, a house that can't be lived in, a commodity that cannot be transformed.

Of course if btc isn't a currency in the making and it is just a new asset class that people just have to believe in and never spend (or use for transactions) then what's the point. Just a massive resource drain.

@limpalong

"Isn’t that the same for any share? (Unless you are short) I mean it was nice to give everyone a reminder, but I’m not sure what other purpose your post serves?"

Kind of but no. Obviously there are dividend paying shares which arnt the same but ignore them as its a given.

Most other companies will increase thier company value by selling goods or services crypto miners don't, they raise billions and hodl, so if btc went to zero, which is outside of the miners control then the company would be bust over night and all the billions that were spent would just be gone into worthlessness, except for some sheds of course.

If my company made washing machines but refused to sell them iI wouldn't expect to be in business long, if I wrote code but refused to sell the games I wouldn't be arou d for long.

So to me it's not the same, the crypto miners are spelling hundreds of billions to hodl because in the future they are hoping it to be worth more.

@Hexam
"In any event, it's a big, bold move which could pay off big time...or could blow up spectacularly in their face."

Yes the partially share funded part might make. It a bit scary for the balance on the accounts, could be interesting.

The numiner rig seems interesting as it's 4 x the output of a s19 but then it's also around 3x the power (nearly 9kw per rig ouch). So from a headline point of view its striking to say 440 th. But then it's. The power req of 3 s19 pros.

I have to admit I'm quite dubious about it and I'm thinking that once due diligence has been done in June on the test machines it will fall through

@tiger

"Regardless of hashrate, these rigs are costing them $1.7 billion dollars. That's a lot of Bitcoin to mine before you go into profit !!"

The notion of profit is kind of pointless.. If it was all paid for by shares then its free money. The company doesn't carry the burden it takes the money from the share issue and spends it, the share price after is irrelevant until the next raise.

It doesn't pay a dividend, it doesn't give. A return to investors (except grater fool increase), it doesn't sell the btc produced.

The company doesn't earn the share raise money, its just free money, so having 1.7 billion of machines for free works well for the company, share holders buy the machines for the colpany with zero return except for the hope that someone will now be willing to pay more for thier share than than they did originally.

@Caddor

"Funny how you guys and gals havnt filtered chuz and chable. Every time there is logical dialogue I can see how the thought process is turned and deflected as with any paid basher or disgruntled former shareholder would do.

If you see a sign that painted red and everyone agrees, the end of the conversation will be turned to how crooked the sign is and the paint is old and weathered and will be removed. Just deflection on logical valuable dialogue. Some folks will say these guys are needed, and I just laugh. Even if they reply to me, heck i dont know what they say nor do i care"

You critisize others for having an opposing view and yet that whole post of yours added absolutely zero to the conversation, not even a point of debate. Literally nothing added.

@limpalong

"And it is for that very reason that I am eternally grateful that PW running the show and not you."

Thing is, I know I'm right and you will also know I'm right when it happens, I just hope that when the time comes people have the integrity to admit that they were wrong and not pretend like they knew it was going to happen all along.

As Argo Bull has said though, time will tell and its the only way you will know for sure.

"BTC just moved up a little. Nice."

Now that I do agree with.. Its got a bit of a way to go before I'm back in a happy place but 41+ is so much better to see than 32.

@limpalong

"@Chuz, so in your opinion having 60,000 miners sitting around doing nothing at goodness knows what cost is preferable to having a facility able to house miners "

Id take the $550 million of miners on hand over a $100 million empty facility..

I think people are always massively under estimating what the s19 Pro actually costs (let alone the newer machines)

"Chuz the deposit is already paid on the machines, I think they take a third for deposit, and will be delivered over time, so it's not a big payment all at once. You need to open your eyes to possibilities."

Yes, I put 35% deposit as a place holder.. That just leaves about 110 million left to pay... More than the nasdaq IPO raised, but yea I'm sure it will be fine

*Chuz, Argo is more than doubling hash this year, they are growing well, and actually running a solid business that thinks about costs. Also immersion coming in and electricity costs going down. Very profitable."

And I'm going to rent out another 160 houses this year, I just need to find a way of raising money to buy them, so basically I'm a billionaire, I just need the money to buy the assets.. Sorted

@Argobull

Do you think they will leave Helios empty it should be ready to run few months time.. And there is a lead time to getting machines...

If people are just concentrating on the 20,000 machines which still need paying for then they should also stop talking about 200mw facility.

PW made it pretty clear that the next raise will be nicer to existing shareholders buy giving them the option to buy as some type of discount.

I can't believe its going to come as a surprise to people on here.. Of course in reality, everyone will just start saying "of course three was going to be a raise" and Kev will say how happy he is again to be diluted..

@limpalong
"AB your post highlights nicely the fact that racing to buy as many rigs as possible as quickly as possible is a fools errand. “Smart sensible growth” is the way forward."

Umm no it doesn't, mara have more on cash than Argo's whole market cap. Slowly but surely is daft in a race.. Quickly but surely is needed.. Except for aesop and his fables.

@Argobull

Whats a fair premium then? Conidering Argo need to raise a few hundred million..

As for 200mw funded? Not sure I understand that because it's not funded that's the issue unless your thinking that it's just the ability to have 200mw of power that's funded.

I just hope people realise what's coming and do not buy into the usual nonsense on here

"Confirmation that Argo's Texas strategy is the right one, own your own data centre, don't rely on third parties."

So if Mara bought out Argo for let day a 25% premium to today's price (which it could do without too much drama) then it would have a data center to put it 60,000 rigs.

Would everyone be happy then, + 25% is a good premium on a buy out especially for a company who needs to raise funds.

So we would all get 100p per share but as shares in Mara... In all fairness I think it would be a good deal too.

"BTC goes on an epic rise before results....this never happens and is duly welcomed!! Positive Monday incoming"

Let's hope it holds otherwise we will be crying in our cornflakes.

@limpalong
"@Chuz, yawn zzzzzzzzzzzzzz"

Yea I know, it's why I don't post anywhere near as much anymore, even I realise Im just banging on about the funding ALL the time it's just such a fundemntal issue to me that Im not interested in much else until its clear what impact the funding will have.

@Jayblue

"Chuz, then are you assuming any placing will be at 85p or lower?"

Im expecting them placing to be at around 20% discount to the price when it's announced. It wouldnt surprise me if it was as low as the 65p mark but will depend when they have to raise the money.

I think if its not announced very soon then Helios will be a nice shed without much in the way of rigs... We've got the 20k s19s on order but we still have to pay for them just for starters....

Remember... Debt for Argo is an ongoing burden on the balance sheet.. Selling btc is pretty much a no non which leaves issuing shares which does not have any negative impact on the company whatsoever.

If you were running the company which option would you choose.

No matter what is said I just can't see past the massive fund raise that's needed just to hit our current commitments..

"Flowerpot, I don't think this will ever go to 60p again, in fact I don't believe you will be able to buy under 85p, once this gets past 85p in my opinion. This is only going to rise from here. In my honest opinion."

Until the funding is made public... Just saying.