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The issue I recall is that Q32 exsig required dry swabs, that was what the validation was performed on,
Most of the other platforms required swabs in PBS (phosphate buffered saline) which meant 2 swabs having to be taken which was a pain both for the patient and staff.
From memory some labs did their own validation of PBS swabs on the Q32 exsig platforms and found that ok so used that method, but this goes against the validated method and instructions.
If DHSC are claiming inaccuracies you could drive a coach and horses thru it as to the reasons why. 🤔
Unless they have cast iron evidence that the test was faulty, they don't have a leg to stand on.
There are so many points of failure that could be attributed to user error, not a failure of the test.
Actually, just thought of this whilst writing.
WHY was Promate and Co prep developed?
Ask yourself that very important question.
What did it fix?
Answers on a postcard
Hi,
Yes, got a bit fed up with my posts just being deleted all the time, probably like this one will lol.
To shed a little light on a few Qs.
Also bear in mind the situation at the time regards testing, 10,000s of additional samples being sent for testing and no off the shelf solution available (this was in addition to normal workload)
User error is highly likely in a busy diagnostics lab.
The sample volumes are in ųL which is 1 millionth of a litre just to give context.
So unless you have pin point accuracy, each and every time, results can be inaccurate, esp with PCR testing, so when you have a batch of 100 samples that need processing and are all urgent, you can imagine mistakes were made and possibly carry over from samples to sample.
PCR testing demands scrupulously clean and uncontaminated environment.
So yes user error in a live environment is highly likely.
The tests are unintelligent, it looks for a piece of RNA/DNA if it finds it in sufficient quantities then it flags as positive else negative. That's basically it.
Exsig was using existing, well proven methodologies, they were just looking for a different target (I've simplified this obvs but fundamentally that's it)
It passed TVG testing
There were regular conf calls with TVG and live sites (would be useful to get the minutes of those meetings @novacyt) where any issues were discussed.
It's subsequently passed CDTA testing
I think the TVG initial testing protocol was flawed and didn't replicate a 'real world usage' scenario, which is DHSC problem not nova.
So I'm still at a loss having read the DHSC case for the basis of their claim, feels like they are rewriting history to me.
Finally, and this is what really, REALLY sticks in my craw.
After exsig was distributed & staff complained it was too slow, Nova bust their b***s to develop promate, which resolved the usability issues, then coprep too.
Bear in mind we were still in the midst of the pandemic at this point (and still are by the way, just now noone cares)
So, as I see it, the position is as follows
Exsig developed super quick. ✔️
Sent for TVG validation and approval. ✔️
TVG passed Exsig as fit for purpose, ✔️
Exsig distributed at agreed volume ✔️
Issues identifying with usability on a live environment ✔️
Promate developed problem solved ✔️
DHSC refusing to pay for Exsig ??
They tested it , approved it distributed it,
Stalemate.
Hence all the pallets of Exsig hanging around labs for weeks.
So nova pulled out all stops to address a usability issue, DHSC screws them over. F.O.
also,
Another thing to bear in kind is that Promate, which everyone says is fine,
IS exsig, the exact same test, they have just removed some of the preparation steps by clever science.
Make this, make sense to be because as it stands it doesn't.
As you were
P
Hello all.
My first visit here in a long time.
Saw the news article on sky and thought I'd pop by and see what everyone's thoughts were.
Still hold my paltry bag of very expensive shares.
Have to say I'm flummoxed by the DHSC position and it doesn't tally with my recollections of that time.
Without going over old ground, tests were validated and approved and used. Never, ever intended for public use, whatever that means.
Pretty sure they got CDTA approval too and more were ordered.
I'm over my losses now, could have cashed out at 40% up, got greedy, doubled down, just before phase 2 was canned.
Live and learn.
Who's replaced salad man
As you were
P
Good post SD
Rarely visit here tbh now but nice to see some positive news. Good acquisition.
Sends a message that things are looking up.
The court date for the dispute is creeping along and will be here before we know it. I still think it won't be an outright win or lose for either party, compromise will happen IMO.
I had some spare cash and was only thinking about averaging down, but then went on holiday...
Seeing the fall back today, probably will double my holding, which won't be v much now, but was when I bought in.
Still, some hope on the horizon now.
Fundamentals of company, still strong.
New acquisition, ergo more revenue
Bullish stance from the hapless BOD.
Yh, worth a punt.
Good luck all x
Thanks for the replies, especially HC.
I put this thought out there as it was bugging me.
I hoped that it was a stupid thought but I asked the question anyway.
I can't put my finger on it but somethings not ringing true with Novacyt, hasn't been for a while now if I'm honest.
The seemingly lack of ambition and subsequent sales doesn't make any sense but what do I know.
FWIW, I think the DHSC dispute will end up with a compromise, neither win nor lose, I don't believe at all that nova will lose the case entirely. From what I know, that would be ridiculous.
I'm looking to average down sometime soon but I think it could be as low as sub 35p.
I'm out of the UK atm with sporadic Internet connection. I'm dragging a versalab through the Congo to the latest Ebola outbreak...
I'm surprised the SP has dropped this low and beginning to think that we haven't reached the bottom yet.
To improve things Novacyt need to start generating good, sustainable non covid revenue. It will come, in time.
I was tempted to average down a couple of months ago, glad I held off, still have the adage of 'a fool and his money..' ringing in my ears.
I saw green shoots in the agm presentation, its just going to take time. I've parked the covid aberration now, it was an opportunistic spike.
Now as a result of that, they have significantly more cash in bank and are debt free, which in these uncertain times, is a big tick.
The DHSC case will come to a resolution, I don't think its going to be a black and white win/lose, there will be compromise and I expect nyct will come out of it ok and DHSC will save a little face. Its normally the way of such things.
The PR seems to have improved markedly. If you take the covid episode out of the equation and 'pretend' it didn't happen, think back to where they were prior to it.
It's going to be a long haul and a plod.
This downtrend atm, doesn't make any sense, but when over the last 18 months had it made sense.
I'm going to sit it out & see what transpires.
Just an FYI, covid gone nowhere, killing 1000 -2000 extra per month but no one seems to care anymore. Its not going to raise anymore cash for nova that ship has sailed but funny what becomes acceptable to Joe Public if they don't know about it.
Just thought I'd pop by and say hi, don't check this board very often anymore, best of luck everyone, its only money, lots more important things to worry about.
Poidster out x
yet again 1 of my posts was deleted, I posted this under the the original thread, luckily enough, I've learned from previous experience, so I copied it and will post it again here below.
Just a few points to note, I don't have any insider info, I'm just expressing my own thoughts and opinions. If anyone sees fit to delete this post again, I will post it again, contact me directly if I'm over stepping a mark.
@larry I can't respond to your twitter post, so I'll say it on here.
I still stand by my original statement regarding this whole issue.
The genesig kit originally supplied was tested and assessed by the technical validation group and approved for use by the NHS themselves.
We also need to remember what the situation was like then in the UK.
Things were pretty dire, no high volume testing solutions were available. Novacyt provided a solution of sorts, not the high volume of traditional analysers but nonetheless better than other tests available at that time.
The efficacy and precision of their test was never in question, it was just labour intensive and was prone to USER error in a busy, microbiology environment.
So the test supplied was FIT FOR PURPOSE and approved by the NHS.
Novacyt took the usability issue on board and rapidly supplied PROmate which was much better suited to a busy general microbiology lab and removed most of the user errors.
I still to this day, don't understand the issue raised by the NHS.
Novacyt provided the approved genesis covid test in large quantities.
It needs to be paid for.
Another test was provided by Novacyt, at considerable cost to Novacyt to develop and provide.
The original genesig kit was thus rendered redundant.
It was all then shipped back to Novacyt and was I think given to WHO free of charge.
This still needs to be paid for. The kit supplied was approved and delivered.
If this is the situation that's in dispute, which I stress is just my opinion, I cannot understand whats in dispute.
Time will tell I guess
We don't need a ceo with a detailed knowledge of molecular diagnostics we already have plenty of staff capable to do that.
We need a ceo who understands the potential of the technology and can sell and persuade others and by dynamic and invigorating to go get out and sell novacyt to the world, extolling their virtues and what sets nova apart from its competitors,
DA was so so bad and the antithesis of whats needed. I still can't believe he got the job, over a year wasted.
@Larry all that sounds very promising thats why after the last DA presentation I was reasonably reassured.
The problem i have now is that none of those words are actually translating into actions.
And whilst nova seem to be treading water other players are filling those gaps.
There have been a few gilt edged opportunities that I personally thought were right up nova's Street but nothing seems to have happened.
They could have bid for those and been unsuccessful i suppose but I've not even heard on the grapevine anything about them bidding.
We've not had a positive, well worded RNS now since before GM left, at least 1 that resulted in an improved SP.
I want to hear of new sales and new markets and not from diligent PIs but from them.
Its like there's a total news blackout now and I don't know why.
Industry magazines are cover to cover now with near patient testing equipment. The world isn't standing still waiting for nova to get its act together.
Its just so frustrating, when I invested i invested in a dynamic, agile, cutting edge company. Because of their small but well skilled team they could react quickly to rapidly changing demands.
All thats gone now buried in a cloud of secrecy and inaction and for the life of me don't know why.
They need solid recurring, growing revenue, organic growth to coin a phrase,
I just see a rotting husk atm.
I'm not being negative per se, im just telling it how I see it now.
Not sure how much more jam tomorrow stuff i can swallow anymore.
BOD should be ashamed drawing a wage now
Tbh it shouldn't need to be punters telling them what to do. They employ well paid ppl to do this. If they don't know what markets they should be targeting then nova is doomed. At the moment none of us have any idea what market they are going after. It would appear none to me.
But what do I know
In response to my post a few days earlier about no first mover opportunities, in a fast moving world things change quickly.
Influenza cases which are resulting in rapid death in humans are on the rise. Its thought to be a sub variant of the avian flu thats running rampant globally atm.
Watch this space