TMS, I guess that you are correct with your quote that as the GPO was "a government owned institution that served the UK people and not a commercial enterprise bringing products to market" and as the UK Government of the day took 100% of the GPO profits then the responsible minister was probably happy with whatever profit was made.
As for a production line, these machines were produced in the UK in their hundreds by a dedicated GPO workforce and distributed to mail centres (there used to be almost sixty) around the UK. I'm sure that scaling up would not have been an issue however by the end of the 1980s the UK in general was looking to ditch any meaningful form of manufacturing in favour of using cheaper Asian labour.
TMS, perhaps do some internet research, it might keep you away from LSE for a while?
RM had developed the Automatic Letter Facing machine and the prototype was trialled at Dock Gate 10 in Southampton Mail Centre in 1957. The multi selection sorting machine was developed shortly afterwards using pinwheel memory and a threaded core translator, way before Europe and the USA had thought about automation although I believe that the Dutch trialled something in the 1930s without much success. RM continued to build and develop it's automation throughout the 60s, 70s and 80s but a lack of foresight and ambition from those who managed the business didn't have the vision....pity...
The first stamps made purely for automation....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphite_lined_stamp
Graphite stamps were phased out in early 1960, as they were deemed too easy to forge, in favour of phosphor lined stamps which could be read under ultra violet light by the newly developed technology.
Unfortunately, staff were not encouraged to take film footage back then probably due to the Official Secrets Act, however there is a poor quality black and white short film of a GPO parcel machine on YouTube.
TMS, "wow, easy tiger lol. So what year are we talking about here? And what were these market leading products it was going to sell to USA and the rest of Europe?? It must have been something damn good if it was going to lead to western domination?"
When did I say that RM were going to sell automation to Europe and the USA? What I actually posted was "RM had the ability to be able to manufacture and sell their own market leading products to the rest of Europe and potentially the USA" so who's twisting words now?.....lolol
You might want to do some homework before just throwing arbitrary comments out there? If you do then you will find that RM had developed stamp and the relevant automation technology as far back as 1955 for letters and had parcel sorting machines in the mid 1960s.
Perhaps best to wind your neck in while I school you boy.....
TMS, so what exactly is your definition of "downing tools" as it's obviously not the same as others on this forum as they have used that outdated Oxford dictionary definition which I have always believed to be definitive?
TMS, you commented yesterday that "I think this is good news that R&D didn’t go down this route in hindsight or RM would be lumbered with even more outdated machinery".
This is so typical of you to miss the point and promote your own agenda. RM had the ability to be able to manufacture and sell their own market leading products to the rest of Europe and potentially the USA. It had the infrastructure and means in place but choose to bin the lot and buy from the US (National Presort), Germany (AEG) and currently France (Solystic). The machinery then needs to be adapted to run with our existing technology and upgraded to current UK (and more importantly, Royal Mail) safety specification and none of this comes cheap.
Lack of foresight, ambition and innovation from a business that used to be a market leader.
Oh dear TMS, you have conveniently omitted the backlash from his "golden hello" payment despite being a longstanding employee.....oh that and the fact that he wanted to run the UK operation from Zurich so that he could presumably keep his finger in the pies......I mean on the pulse.....lol?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/royal-mail-boss-rico-back-pay-deal-mps-demand-answers-rachel-reeves-a8465536.html
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/15/royal-mail-chief-rico-back-quits-with-immediate-effect
TMS, I have an adopted daughter who could be a natural sibling to you. She has, and always will, be keen to get involved in an argument or discussion even if she wasn't involved or invited but hey, this is an open forum so I guess that anything goes and like you she also doesn't like to respond directly to a question (when a simple yes/no would suffice) without deflecting so would probably make an ideal politician. Have you ever thought about a career in politics?
TMS, I'm not having a hard time understanding the simple points that you are making at all however you obviously aren't making them simple enough as when I respond with a comment based on your opinion and simple points you accuse me of twisting your words.
So, are you saying that by downing tools, the militant union are stopping the directors from achieving their vision? If so then surely that would be an admission that "Baldy Dave" holds some power here? Of course you wouldn't want to admit that would you?
By innovation, I mean within RM automation and by contracts, I mean long term contracts that the business have signed up to which are now coming back to haunt them and will cost big bucks to get out of alter.
TMS, "Yes, I would 100% say so. If I was an investigator looking at the situation we’ve got 4 different CEO’s , over almost 20 years, from different nationalities, different backgrounds, different sexes…….and the same Union. So it’s either all 4 CEO’s are argumentative, malicious psychopaths or the (same) union with the same personnel are militant dinosaurs…"
I'm not twisting your words....
You have said that over the last twenty years, the last four CEOs have been unable to progress because of the militant dinosaur union. So who is running the company? Why haven't they been able to push their agenda's through?
"I know that you would very much like that to be the case as you seem to take great pleasure in the fact the ceo’s have been removed? are you afraid of innovation and do you lack ambition?"
Where have I stated that I take pleasure in having a CEO removed? I actually thought that Moya Greene was doing a good job bit she wanted to retire. Lacking ambition.....lol..... this is a business that traditionally makes innovation from within extremely difficult due to its structure and the long term contracts that it has tied itself up in.....lol......of course you wouldn't know that as you have never been an employee.....
"by trying to twist my words and turning it on me you’ve done an excellent job at confirming the point i was making."
You post so many words that it's not difficult really.....lol.....
TMS, so by your own admission, the last four CEOs have been totally ineffective and unable to reign the workforce in? So working on that principle it really doesn't matter who the next CEO is as it will be "rinse and repeat".....lol
It looks as though you are admitting that "Baldy Dave" and his henchmen hold all the power?
TMS, so you are laying the blame for the UK operation's decline on the workforce? Nothing whatsoever to do with the personnel that get paid to run the company?
So during Moya Greene's tenure the UK operation made absolutely no progress?
It's strange that both Crozier and Thompson came from supermarkets but both failed to implement their vision as they would have liked?
TMS, "that was the 1970’s. When Royal Mail had absolute monopoly. Of course they were market leaders. Lol".
So, let's gloss over the history of RM and start it from, say 1998 when Amazon started up in the UK.
How does a business that had the monopoly on letters and the market share of parcels go from being a market leader in the delivery sector to being a pretty poor third place behind Amazon and DPD? It looks like the genie is out of the bottle and it doesn't look like going back anytime soon.
Sure, the two super hubs are great, although I doubt that the third one scheduled for the south of England will come to fruition, but the competition are still head and shoulders above RM in terms of pure collection and delivery.
It all comes down to a lack of foresight, ambition, innovation and investment.....
TMS, I believe that you may be missing the point on this?
We were market leaders in automation technology and combined forces with Toshiba Bulk Mail Handling (which I believe we bought out at the end of the last century) and AEG. The RM R&D department which was based in Swindon could have gone on to develop and build new and innovative bulk letters handling machinery for global consumption, however due to the shortsighted business plan it decided to ditch the R&D side in favour of purchasing machinery that was developed in an American entrepreneur's garage.
Royal Mail could and should have been well ahead of our competitors instead of falling behind, which is where we are.
Ferrari are still competing and doing it against Red Bull (possibly) but BRM are definitely not and if RM don't up their game they will get blown into the weeds.....lol
Derek, you are bang on when you say that RM used to be market leaders. When I joined the business in the 1970's, RM had already developed the phosphor coated stamp, developed the technology to read it and incorporated it into their machinery (ALF). We had helped pioneer OCR technology and joined forces with AEG to develop a machine that could read type faced and hand written addresses We developed printers that could print phosphor dots onto the letters and had already built and installed parcel sorting machines and chain conveyors. We were also developing and improving our E4/E18 multi selection letter sorting machines, however, by the 1990s the management had decided to downsize the R&D team and eventually dissolved it in preference to purchasing "off the shelf" solutions which always required a large amount of modification to be compatible with our existing technology.....and we are still modifying "off the shelf, plug and play" solutions because we never manage to purchase exactly what we want......the equivalent of buying a new Ferrari and then shoving a diesel power unit in to improve mpg.....lol
TMS, originally, the "we're not going to use aircraft anymore" line was used as an excuse to move start and finish times by up to there hours. Now it's been watered down to twenty four minutes seasonal variation.
Ispy and TMS, from what I have seen this week, I can verify that the seasonal variation working has indeed impacted on the postie's lives as they now have an extra fourteen minutes at the end of the working day to check their social media accounts, go for a dump (and check their social media accounts) or just have a good chinwag.....
It's going to be carnage in the spring and summer of 2024 when they have to do this in their own time.....lol
TMS, the hubs are a great investment however they are only part of the solution.
My thinking is that a saving of £250m to £300m is probably just about enough to keep the UK operation running at a minimal profit. The challenge for the BoD is where additional profits can be made and more importantly how they can win back those contracts which were lost during the period of unrest.
The business itself identified around 400 out of the 1250 UK delivery offices that required significant investment to make them fit for purpose, then there is the problem of the aging fleet which will require electrification in the near future.
TMS, yes the hubs are a substantial investment however they are already planned in. I was thinking more in terms of getting the delivery side of the business fit for purpose and that includes a necessary spend in getting the operation running smoothly as well as a substantial investment in the buildings themselves as some are/will require making fit for purpose going forward into the new era of increased parcels.