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these rules.

Same with the UK top investment houses like Standard Life, Blackrock, Legal & General Pension funds etc.

On-topic and in answer to the question posed.

Isnt Cadence about to be EARNINGS LED via the Amapa iron ore project, once owned by Anglo American, a co whose mkt cap is into billions. I posted that Anglo*s internal valuation for Amapa was $1.5 bn [kindly check as I gave the link as well]. Isnt Amapa*s EBITDA quoted by Cadence as US$136 million and pre-EBITDA in the order of US$266 m mark?

Prior to impairment, did KDNC and Brand UK not quote the value of Amapa was US$600m and it is quoted in the RNS from recall of 30 Aug 2019 re: Amapa.

Glencore was in the bidding for Amapa and I quoted Glencore*s mkt cap just the night or so ago. Glencore*s mkt cap is even higher than Anglo-American, the major.

So, by the rules of investment 101 by Graham Bell, Warren Buffett, Carrett and a whole bevy of investment fund household names in the US & UK etc not follow these so-called rules that I cited via accounting etc.

This is what everyone in the City and Wall St is doing everyday of the year bar Xmas and New year etc when the mkt closes.

It is the bread and butter of the above - all UK pension is also invested and hence the Legal General*s of this world are busy every day doing the cals etc.

Norm.

Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 6.35pm [Mkt closed]
A courtesy reply to the question posed to me.
Thank you.

I cite:
"Lessons from Carret*s The Art Of Speculation."- 13.6.18
https://novelinvestor.com/lessons-carrets-art-speculation/

"Carret was a Barron*s reporter. Managed money for family and friends. Evolved into Pioneer Investments. Ran the fund for 55 years during which time $10,000 became $8m. Warren Buffett said of Carret: best long term investment record I know."

Quote:
"The road to SUCCESS in speculation is the study of VALUES."
"To APPRAISE VALUE in individual stocks, he must know something about a great many different businesses.. Above all he must know something about ACCOUNTING."

"IF THE STOCK IS SELLING WELL BELOW the level which CURRENT EARNINGS and position JUSTIFY, and there is nothing to impair its position in the future, he may be sure others will discover it and that in TIME, it will raise to a REASONABLE LEVEL."

"I am reminded of a 1955 Senate Commitee hearing in which BEN GRAHAM offered up the mysteries of the stock market.

"But this goes beyond that. ALL OF THAT FOCUS THAT EARNINGS GROWTH, Profit Margins and Buffett style wonderful businesses... Because as GRAHAM SAID in 1955: " EVENTUALLY THE M A R K E T CATCHES UP WITH VALUE."

Comment:
Who is Graham Bell - some call him the Father of Modern Investing. Warren Buffett went to the university to study finance I understand and the seminal is Graham Bell. Apparently, the US Senate recognised him as such.

Now, Graham Bell and others are the cornerstone of what the City of London and Wall Street is about.

Almost ALL investment houses follow these accounting rules of earnings etc.

Cadence Minerals received funding [hard to come by these days per FT article I just quoted in this thread] and hence Dickinson & Hill*s Legal Director*s [solicitors to Cadence] comments posted last night on this forum.

WARREN BUFFETT -Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Buffett

"Chairman & CEO of Berkshire Hathaway. Considered one of the most successful investors. Net worth $82 billion and as of July 18, 2019, the 3rd wealthiest man in the WORLD."

"From Wharton School of the Uni of Pennsylvania..where he molded his "VALUE INVESTING" that was pioneered by Graham Bell."
------------------------------------
An example from the US per investment 101:
From the USA in the last 24 hours receiving wall-to-wall coverage:
"The Street:Set for Record High after Q2 Earnings beat, 2019 outlook boost."

"Lululemon shares jump on quarterly earnings beat."-CNBC

"Lululemon earnings: EPS beat $0.96 vs $0.89 Est..."-CNBC Closing Bell

"Namaste. Lululemon beats on earning and sale..."-Paul R. La Monica , CNBC Biz Corr.

"Lululemon stock RISES on STRONG Qtr earnings..."-Barrons

All from accredited Twitter blue badge official holders as above.

Comment:
Everyday, Wall St watches for earnings beats etc. A/c stock rises or falls by these earnings. This is investment 101 which Wall St, Warren Buffett and the whole bevy of investment funds follow via

Thank you Ivybush.

I was not asking for advice. If in the event, there is NO re-rate according to CITY or WALL ST RULES, then I may approach the market to ask.

By the way:
"Once an AIM stock hits a market value of £700,000, it becomes eligible to move to the main market."

Quoted from: "AIM suffers fresh setback as fund raising slows to a trickle."- Financial Times, 4 Sep 2019
To read, call up that title.

Comment:
It is no small wonder why the Legal Director of Dickinson Hill, solicitors to Cadence said that the raising showed the evidence ...of the Amapa project [check exact words which Observer842 quoted]. It also involved WH Ireland*s solicitor as they must have had to also check as a matter of due diligence on an overseas acquisition. Dickinson also handled the restructuring, the notes, the cross-jurisdiction etc.

Fri, 5 Sep 2019 at 5:15pm

By the way, the sentiment plays no part in re-rating as that is part of the rules wherein the City of London and Wall St plays by. This relates to earnings stocks world-wide. It is only a matter of the attributable P/E which is well-known.

Kiran Mozaria, CEO of Cadence Minerals has already produced the figure into DOUBLE DIGIT MILLIONS TO CADENCE MINERALS at the VOX Mkts interview when they first announced the deal for Amapa iron ore, Brazil. So much, so that Justin Waite started speaking to himself as he sounded over-awed by the figure since he would be cognisant that Cadence*s mkt cap is around the £10m or so mark.

I could hear him speaking and repeating it as if in consternation.

Now, Mr Market - that*s from the horse*s mouth ie CEO.

I have tried to work my figures to back-check with Mr Mozaria*s above quote.

However, kindly check.

DYOR.

6 Sep 2019 at 5pm [Mkt closed]
All in the public domain.

So, Ivybush - will we be ready in that event to bring this to the attention of....
KDNC being a earnings co and yet NOT re-rated a/c to P/E and earnings far higher than mkt cap of £11m = NEGATIVE P/E CO?

Never seen even 1 co like that.

Now that Ivybush is here, it is the ideal time to discuss 1 point that I am interested in:

I have done my calculations on Amapa and I have used the EBITDA figure and deducted for ITDA namely Brazilian Corporate Tax rate.

Further, I have used CME Futures to see the 62% Fe prices for up to 2022 or so.
I have not checked for Iron Ore Futures 65% Fe. So, in light of what I saw, I did a further allowance of 10% in the price quoted in the metrics given by KDNC.

I also made allowance for interest payments via bonds. These days, the banks absolutely refuse to lend to commodity projects by the smaller players. Standard Chartered withdrew from this mkt a long time ago.

Hence, for that reason, the UK potash project has to depend on bonds at 10%. However, the potential bond holders were not happy at 10% as they wanted 13% a/c to Motley Fool. So, I have used a 15% bond rate or whatever the paper choice may be. I even did a cals for 20%.

Let us say that once Amapa gets off the ground via stockpiles, that means KDNC changes from just an investment co to one that has INCOME - Revenue. As such, it is then NORM to be assessed on P/E.

So, it will not just be on the broker note from WH Ireland & Hannan as to the portfolio value but rather on an earnings basis.

I have NEVER seen any co with a mkt cap of £11m with income or post EBITDA multiples higher and NOT get re-rated.

I wonder if what the Founder of REM plc [now KDNC] is still applicable ie the market is still short on the stock. As such, when re-rating may take place barring unforeseen circumstances, this will affect the share price as there could be in theory, a stock squeeze.

There will be on ah, or whatever - the market plays by these rules.

I wonder what the market will do then. All naysaying will be of no help as earnings are the rule and the rules therein?

Waiting for the day to see the market ......? Oh, caveat: IF, possible and maybe etc.

Fri 6 Sep 2019 at 4:45pm [Mkt closed now]
Not editing as having dinner.

I started with @observer842 to relate what*s happening. The iron ore stock is up 20% or so on "rumours."

There have been "rumours" on that stock for such a long time about the X and Y which has not moved forward from that.

However, that stock does not suffer from poor sentiment as it seems to have lost legacy holders. Just goes to show that Amapa [Cadence Minerals] is further than even Macarthur Minerals [KDNC owns 9.8%] but.... Macarthur still have some way to go as they will need funding.

Hello @observer842
A few bits of news:
I was reading Motley Fool: Cadence Minerals as I missed it.
"Who are Tesla*s Lithium Suppliers."- Motley Fool, Updated 16.419
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/03/26/who-are-telsas-lithium-suppliers.aspx

Suppliers to Tesla and their agreement dates:
"Ganfeng Sep 2018 Tesla Agreement"
"Kidman Resource May 2018 "
"Pure Energy Sep 2015"
"JOINT VENTURE PARTNERS CADENCE MINERALS & BACANORA -Aug 2015"

Comment:
When I saw Cadence*s name in lights with the like of Kidman Resources and more importantly Ganfeng, I started laughing my head off.

So funny.

On 6 Apr 2019, "Volkswagen & Ganfeng launch lithium co-operation."-Electrive.
Put this title into the search engine to read but it is on Twitter today.
"Gangfeng now supplies TESLA, LG CHEM, BMW AND NOW VOLKSWAGEN."

My Comment:
Whilst a historical article of an overview of Tesla*s suppliers, nevertheless, the INDUSTRY must have been cognisant of this as Motley Fool picked up the historical data from some industry source. So, it was NOT actually a lost cause being in with Tesla [REM plc*s - Founder*s pic at Tesla and the agreement to supply Tesla?]. As they say, all publicity is good.

So, Cadence*s name is in lights [HISTORICAL now] and no doubt of some note to the industry.

Surprise, surprise, Gangfeng is now partners to Bacanora [caveat: deal not entirely through yet but kindly check as I do not follow too closely to the minute there].

And, Gangfeng is now supplier to TESLA.

What a small world? Its come 1 full round. Just, a story for AFTER-DINNER.

Fri, 6 Sep 2019 at 4:15pm

FH
I did not expect the board or founder to reply directly to my tweet by providing a direct answer ? Why? That has to come via a regulatory news service announcement [RNS].

However, I have had the courtesy of a sophisticated response which is open and transparent.

So, I am happy with that courtesy that has been extended to me and that has been openly seen. There is no direct answer of any sort but merely the courtesy extended to me personally.

What happens on Twitter is open, transparent and best left to that site. It has far more stringent rules as there are far more people who view tweets etc.

I have already posted it but perhaps it has been missed so I wont go over old ground again as its boring.

With that, have a good day.

I think that the outline of Cadence Minerals progress will be more fully disclosed in a forthcoming broker note from WH Ireland per degsie*s post via a minimum target price.

If there is no full note of several pages and it merely consist of a new updated target price, then each one will have to work out how that has been calculated. On hand, will be the 3 target prices that WH Ireland has given to KDNC or REM plc in the past.

However, there is a Hannan & Partners broker note on Cadence Minerals website on www.cadenceminerals.com to the left of the page [click to read] which gives a breakdown. This note was dated in mid-2018 so any updating will need further personal research. Suffice to say Hannan & Partners are London investment bankers who specialise in commodities in the main? Mr Hannan, the founder was previously the Vice-Chairman of JP Morgan [Wiki].

WH Ireland has won Wealth Investment prizes and the other day, I think they may have bagged a new one but I have not looked further into it.

So, this concludes everything and everything has been answered.

I will take my leave with thanks as I have other things to deal with etc beside the normal things.

News
Fri, 6 Sep 2019

B,
Transport gets into London in the evening - 1 night needed in the City of London [Square Mile].

Transport leaves at noon and have to be ready before noon, so will miss the AGM at 11am or so.

So, need to stay another night in Central London to catch transport home at noon the next day.

The AGM will take no more than x time.

I have already communicated to the board or Founder.

I have furthered my research so I know that next news may come from the Greenland Mineral Authority.

Many have now gone on to Twitter - for a quiet life.

Hope that explains matters. Have a nice day all.

Fri 6 Sep 2019

I am checking on another stock so hence around for the next few mins.

"Rare Earths puts WA on the priority list."-The West Australian, 6 hrs ago, 6 Sep 2019
https://twitter.com/HC_Haplo/status/1169784560457879552

Quote:
"The West Australian last month reported Mr Morrison would talk about a plan for Australian strategic minerals including RARE EARTH when he meets President D.Trump in Washington next month. "

"Australia is ranked 6th in the world for RARE EARTHS and 2nd for production. Yet many of its deposits remain untapped. A spokesman for Mr Morrison said strengthening LINKS between WA & US on RARE EARTHS was CRUCIAL."
--------------------------
Yangibana is in Western Australia
[KDNC JV with Hastings Metals Technology of Australia [ASX:HAS] at Yangibana.
https://hastingstechmetals.com/project/yangibana
Comment: Relevance of what is happening in WA rare earths.
---------------------------------------------
MORE NEWS ON BALD HILL LITHIUM & ALITA RESOURCES [A40 -Formerly known as Alliance]. Bald Hill is near KDNC*s Picasso lithium licence in Australia

"Stone in Galaxy*s shoe as administrators move in on Bald Hill. Korda Mentha taking control of Alita Resources will buy time for rivals of Galaxy Resources in the looming carve up." -AFR [Australian Financial Review] 5 hrs ago, Fri 6 Sep 2019
https://twitter.com/HC_Haplo/status/1169797280309735430
Comment: Anyone interested can read it as I am not currently following this story closely as I am doing other things.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Wesfarmers has taken over Kidson Resources [lithium] -Australian news.
That can also be read on HC_Haplo*s Twitter on https://twitter.com/HC_Haplo
--------------------------------------------------------------
Answer: I said I would ask on Twitter. I have. What is tweeted on Twitter is PUBLIC, open and transparent. So any answers etc can be also seen so kindly check. I said I dont have to go all the way and spend 2 nights at a hotel in Central London [near the AGM office] to attend the 20 Sep 2019 AGM when I can ask on Twitter.
-----------------------------------------------------------
I am rushing so I am not editing for any errors.

Sorry typo in title: Should read: "Ambassador to Denmark."
Who is John Bolton = US: Trump*s national security advisor - its in the article.

"Trump national security adviser discusses Greenland economic ties with ambassador to Denmark."- The Hill, 5 Sep 2019 [news just out a few hours ago]

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/460052-trump-national-security-adviser-discusses-greenland-

Quote:
"Topics include Arctic and energy security, trade and boosting economic ties with Greenland, INCLUDING INVESTMENTS IN MINERAL EXPLORATION projects and airport upgrades."

The above article is based on a tweet by John Bolton and the above is from that said tweet.

Kindly check.

P.S. Pardon the typo errors I spotted in my last post.
Thanks B, Recommend.

Thur, 5 Sep 2019 at 11:35pm

contd
To cut to the chase, Observer842 is looking for the EXPIRY DATE on the Greenland Minerals Authority for Rare Earth Resources Ltd [that is the 2013 REM plc application date] to be changed from 31 . 12. 2018 to one in 20.. which "INDICATE" the licence has been renewed. Even then, the Greenland Mineral Authority has caveated this with the "DISCLAIMER."

So, personally, I would also look to a 2nd confirmation via KDNC. Also, to confirm with the co if the REM plc assay results is the same ONE as the Greenland licence they now hold or NOT?

In checking the Greenland Mineral Authority, one hope to see progress and that is all that one can say but CONFIRMATION is not something one can "RELY UPON."
The Authority*s legal DISCLAIMER tells one so.

Hope that helps. Others may not agree so its open for discussion. I follow some general principles of procedure for myself and up to others what degree of research they are following. One can never be 100% SURE. It is always probability.

Thur, 5 Sep 2019 at 11:20pm

degsie
As a matter of courtesy, I CANNOT confirm nor not confirm what it says in the Cadence Minerals Annual Report. Why? The timing is rather behind time?

However, this is the situation:
1) The Cadence website does NOT state that the co does NOT own the Greenland licence. There were originally 3 licences, now only 1 that abuts Kvanejfeld. Check www.cadenceminerals.com for Cadence Greenland under icon Projects.

2)A co*s website is not necessarily regulatory compliant as there can be errors eg the employee manning it makes an error etc. This is the same if one goes to the pub, party and hears things. ONLY an RNS is regulatory news which stands for Regulatory News Service.

3)From the Greenland Mineral Authority, I quoted that there is a disclaimer. Why? Sometimes, there can be errors. The Greenland Authority does not want to provide warranty that anything on their website is to BE relied upon. What happens if one night at 1am, one checks and it says X co has got their licence renewed to 2024? Do they rush to buy the shares especially if the only asset of a co, say is dependent on this 1 asset? It could be correct or it could be wrong.

4)So, what is the answer? Obviously, if the Greenland Minerals Authority informs the co that they have obtained a RENEWAL, then one would think it is to be RNS *ed as it is "material" and could be "price sensitive"? In the past, maybe not so important. However, with the Trump news of the US wanting to buy Greenland & USGS do field studies at Kvanejfeld [ASX:GGG] and Ms Carla, US Secretary of State visiting Kvanejfeld & TANBREEZ, it has gained global notice.

5)There is a shareholder whose opinion is that there has been n o work done on Cadence*s Greenland licence & the Authority may want to take it back. Its not so simple as that - there are rules & regulations. I posted the link in this thread but as said, I have NOT looked at it. Its a bit premature. However, from the REM plc RNS, they commissioned exploration work and GGG helped them out via commissioning SRK. In return, REM plc paid for this via shares issued. Hence, this result was compared with the TANBREEZ results. Kiran Morzaria has also posted a video of them flying over their Greenland licence and 1 pic from recall of exploration work. I have posted the link earlier to this RNS so kindly check. North American Nickel has 1 licence in Greenland and are NO further than REM plc from what I understand?

5)If anyone has been following Obs convo with myself, they would be aware that we are not 100% sure if the licence currently "active" is the SAME one as the one RNS*ed [exploration results] via REM plc or another one?

6)So, either ask at the KDNC London AGM on 21 Sep 2019 OR wait for the RNS if KDNC has been formally & officially informed by the Greenland Minerals Authority. That*s the only way and conforms with REGULATORY news.

Looking at the dates - I looked at all the 14 pages, it is possible news may be close given ot

Rare Earth Resources Ltd is the co wherein Cadence Minerals holds the Greenland licence. On clicking on the licence owner, one will see it is the Cadence address in London. REM plc applied for the licence in 2013.

I said I check everyday. This is my NEW findings [please check]:
From Greenland Mineral Licence & Safety Authority REPOSITORY at https://portal.govmin.gl/licence

1) Pg 5: Nielsen, start 01-01-19. EXPIRY 1/1/21 [Small scale exclusive licence]
Denoted in YELLOW - "UNDER REVIEW"? [My comment: Its NOT expired yet but under review?]

2)Pg 10: Olsen, Ilannguaq [Small scale exclusive licence]
Denoted in BLUE - "ACTIVE LICENCE"
Expiry: 31-12-18 [My Comment: Its not only Cadence with the expiry date of 31.12.18 which is long overdue?]

3)Pg 11: Kreutmann,Aqqalu, Start 1/1/16, Small scale ex licence, Expiry: 31.12.18
Denoted in BLUE with "ACTIVE LICENCE."[My comment: Same expiry date as Cadence]

4)Pg 12: CRCG, Start 1.2.13, Mineral Exploration Licence [MEL], EXPIRY 31.12.18
Denoted in Yellow with "UNDER REVIEW."
[My comment: Same expiry date as Cadence but unlike the others this is under review].

5) Pg 12 : RARE EARTH RESOURCES LTD: Start 1.1.13 - Mineral Exploration Licence [MEL]. Expiry 31.12.18. Denoted in BLUE with "ACTIVE LICENCE."
Click the eye icon on the left and it gives the name and address of the co which is Cadence*s address in London.

6)Pg 13: Greenland Gold Resources Ltd, Start 1.1.10, Mineral Expl Licence [MEL],
EXPIRY: 31.12.19 denoted in Yellow with "UNDER REVIEW." ?
[My Comment: This licence has NOT YET EXPIRED? Even after expiry, it gives x days for application processing etc]

7) Pg 14 [Last page-no more pages after this]:Greenland Ruby AS, Mineral Exploration Licence [MEL], Start 1.1.03 & EXPIRY 31.12.18
Denoted in Blue with "ACTIVE LICENCE."
[My comment: This is the same expiry date as Cadence]

8)Under Greenland Ruby AS is the famous TANBREEZ [next to Kvanejfeld] with a start date of 1.1.01, Mineral Exploration Licence [MEL] with an EXPIRY of 31.12.19
denoted in Blue with "ACTIVE LICENCE."

<>GREENLAND ACTS, REGULATIONS & GUIDELINES
https://govmin.gl/en/licensing/current-licences-and-activities/
My comment: I have not gone through the regulations at this stage.
Also, NOTE the Greenland Authority has a "DISCLAIMER" on its page so please read as reliance on any info is.....

Why am I posting above?
Further to my convo with Observer842 who is also watching the Cadence Minerals Greenland licence date, Obs may NOT be aware of the NEW changes which shows up as denoted in YELLOW under "Under Review."

For example Bluejay has a expiry date of 2021 but is NOT denoted under yellow but rather it is denoted in blue with "ACTIVE LICENCE."

Posted for accuracy as to what is happening and NOT just Cadence Minerals as the only co?

Please check, DYOR and do due diligence. This completes the licence story on Greenland. Without checking the REGULATIONS in detail, hard to as

The info you are looking for comes from BrandUK on 30.8.19 [day of KDNC RNS on Amapa iron ore project, Brazil]:

"1.39m tonnes of STOCKPILE currently held at the port owned by Amapa."

"At the full production & using $61per tonne at 62%Fe Amapa is forecast an average net revenue of US$266m pa and and average of US$136m pa. "

"18-24mths to ship." [Think it refers to the selling of the stockpile period]

"Independent survey of 3 stockpiles - 1.39Mt [+-10%] - 62.12% Fe. "

"Operational Plan: The BENEFICATION plants consist of a crushing circuit followed by screening, floatation, thicker and filling to produce 65%Fe PELLET & 62% Fe Spiral concentrate."

"********4.4Mt of 65% Fe & 0.9 Mt of 62% Fe per annum."************

Link: https://twitter.com/Brand_UK/status/1167419193408532480

P.S.
The FT has run a story this morning about AIM.
Quote:
"We*re not here to operate a zero failure regime. Investors need to do RESEARCH on individual co*s & decide which to BACK, said Mr Stuttard." Mr Stuttard is Head of AIM at the London Stock Exchange.

The word research means to be able to dissect the final financials etc and to be able to find out as much as a broker note would issue and to update all the time.
This is where some measure of safety lies. I did my cals on the Amapa $136m EBITDA figure as given in the KDNC RNS of 30.8.19 which is a forecast. I have posted it on a public forum where it cant be deleted and I used Brazilian corporation tax [link given] and Iron ore futures to check right up to 2022 for a start. I also gave the +-10% further adjustment to iron ore prices as a margin of safety.

Yeah, a lot of work, hence my eyes are always tired and typo errors occur.

Research means different things to different people. Unfortunately, research is not available to Joe Public - KDNC has 5 analysts covering the stock per RearchTree but the reports are NOT available to Joe Public. I gave the link last night.

DYOR. Please check and do due diligence ie research.

"Steel output restrictions in Tangshan, China could support IRON ORE PRICES, particularly PREMIUMS paid for lump as mills will need to cut sintering and some blast-furnace output supporting lump, which can be fed directly into blast furnaces." - Wall Street Journal, 3 hrs ago, Wed 4 Sep 2019 at 11.25pm from EY Strategist Mining Analyst.

https://twitter.com/AmberMining/status/1169324445351206913

Comment:
Mr Market - From WSJ. So, KDNC is in the right business ie iron ore?
The final proof from the WSJ Market Talks covering Basic Materials.

I check every day at least once at the Greenland Mineral Authority website from KDNC*s Greenland licence etc.