Member Info for NDNIC00

Not sure if there kit is in the existing 4g network as when it was being built BT for the most part only supplied the Backhaul networks for mobil providers, as BT did not have its own mobile service then. Huawei is quite profound in the existing FTTC broadband delivery in the street cabs and exchange nodes. There was talk of “ spy chips” when it was being rolled out but I never came across any evidence of there being an issue.

I have no info on the build of FTTP but think you are correct that internal planning will route that as much as practical away from existing cables. The other thing is some of the smaller exchanges and repeater stations may become redundant, they may be able to move services from 2 or 3 locations into one. Think cost will be the driver to recovery, if a locations cost is to high and no safety concerns are raised I can see the old being left in place especially in small locations.

Over time the internal cables in exchanges have become a mess. Originally back in the PO days things were done correctly, run along the planed route, laced in and identified. After being privatised things slowly slipped, less inspection during the job, time constraints, contractors being used all added to things literally getting tied up. There is not only coax terminations from equipment but tie cables from one location to another within the building, fibre ties the same, MDF cables to the external network. Then there are all the tie cables to various other frames within the building linking equipment on intermediate frames, the cable from analog equipment to various frames and of course other providers links to the MDF. When the analog offload was happening services were converted to digital services making the analog kit redundant, the problem encountered was when trying to remove the copper cables from the kit to the frames there was so much additional cable on runways and above frames it was impossible to lift it off The cable being removed, so much was cut and left in place. When you have a runway above a frame that is say 30-40 feet long 10 feet wide but 2-3 feet high with cable it just can’t be done if you have live cables in the mix. Some of the really big exchanges I worked in had cable runway in almost all of the overhead space on a floor with equipment and frames located in it. So yes it could be done with live services BUT just imagine rubbing through a working cable causing loss of service then having to run a replacement in from one end of a building to the other then up three floors because you can’t access the damaged section and no way of locating a point to intercept the cable because you don’t know where it actually runs within all the others around it. These days it would probably take a week just to get the replacement delivered to the exchange...

Yes copper in exchanges would be an asset. There must be hundreds of tons of cable in the exchanges. The issue in the past when internal cables become redundant has been the same as in ducts, it is so intertwined with every other cable it just tends to be cut where it enters a frame so the connecting blocks can be removed but the cables are left in place above frames and cableways. In theory once all the non fibre kit is decommissioned you could just pull all the other cables out, problem will be that there will be older fibre cables mixed in so they would be at risk of damage when pulling others out. Not really sure how much could be removed if a building is still in use, certainly the smaller exchanges could be done but larger ones could be a problem, being over many floors and even several buildings making up one exchange. Don’t think “cut n pull“ will be the way to go !!!

Fleccy. In the case of copper recovery, It remains to be seen how much copper is recoverable and how much recovery would cost, so if it's worth doing is anyone's guess.
Recovery would, I think, not going to provide any extra income for selling it once out. Most of the high quality copper is already out, the trunk network that connected exchanges as part of the digital upgrade a few years ago. Some has been left in the ground as it could not be pulled out being intertwined with other cables hence a good chance of causing damage. The copper that is left is the local loop, exchange to end user, split into two types. The exchange to street cabinet is usually copper which could be removed, the second from the cabinet to the end user is a different story. A lot of it is Aluminium it used to be copper but when sectiones needed replacing or extending Alli was used as it was cheaper than copper, after all it only needed to be used for a telephone line, no BB back then. The Alli is a reason that some have problems with there BB it has different characteristics than copper hence a mix of the two on a line can be a problem, as for recovering this part the records are poor as to which parts are copper or Alli. Also a lot is not in a duct but just dug in the ground in estates.
As for selling OR staff would end up with customers receiving a poorer service in the long term...

When I left under voluntary terms you could add a max of 6 months payments then it’s frozen until it matures then you can have your money back or shares at the option price. Win win. The only thing is that like 2010 it will be over subscribed so people may not be able to do the full £300 a month but a bit less. So when they start paying in August hopefully they will already be up at least 40p that’s almost 50% before you start !!!!!!!!!
GLA

FYI. The splicer checks the splice once done and give a reading of loss through the splice, typically zero to 0.1db Most that I encountered as needing to be done again came in the most from contractors, paid by the splice. As usual once found it was to late to bother chasing them up. The other issue is people doing a splice and causing a micro bend on another service, easy to do and not know about it at the time.

Yes the splicing is the easy bit, it’s the prep and laying into a cassette that takes time. Probably only did a few hundred splices but you need a lot of patience getting your fibre out of the cassette and back in correctly, if previous people have not done it right it’s a pain in the bottom, not for me either every day. Would think new build is easer as everything is new and hopefully done correctly. Yes BT used to measure and record every splice but not now since they decided that they no longer needed PTOs and have to sat the modern OTDR is purity accurate along with duct records for distances. In the good old days a PTO would commission every new service and if they found a splice with more than about 0.25db loss they would get it done again before commissioning the service. Don’t think now that’s worried about if a link is within limits and works that’s good enough for day to day service, there are a few exceptions on closed networks where everything is still recorded but that is very much the exception.

I was thinking of locations that are very remote with just a cluster of homes in an area, perhaps saying around 25 was misleading. I would expect that such locations are presently covered by an amount of 4g so would only require some additional cells. Yes the low frequency 5g has lower bandwidth but sufficient for what it would be used for, 30 -200m is more than enough, 10-100 times more than current BB via copper.just thinking it could reduce costs if planed right in some locations. As for splicing, unless you are completely incompetent it’s not that hard the splicer dose it all for you, as long as you can strip the fibre properly!!!

Rural areas are the ones that are missing out at present, so right to give connectivity there as a priority. How rural is rural? Locations such as highlands of Scotland, York moors, Dartmoor, Welsh mountains, could be well served by a 5g solution rather than the expense of fibre to service say 25 households. If the government could agree that such locations could be exempt from FTTP this would make rollout cheaper and quicker .

So who would want part of a “ maintenance company “ who’s work stream will dramatically shrink once converted to fibre, therefor its income would also drop through the floor.

Don’t think this would be a good idea in the long run. At present BT group ends up with all the income generated by OR, they also in the end pay for ORs costs, network repair, network upgrades, staff, etc. But, if they sell a percentage of OR then yes the cash will be used for the costs just mentioned, also a percentage of the income would go to the investor as a return for the investment. Therefor BT will loose income, that’s the simple bit, now for why it would be the wrong thing to do.
The current copper part of the network has a high cost to maintain it, being susceptible to the weather, corrosion, lightning strike etc. Once the network becomes all fibre in the next 5 or so years it will not suffer these problems, it will have a very small maintenance cost, this will mean OR will need less staff, much less, the network will just sit there generating lots of income for very little outlay. Why would they want a large percentage of that cost saving and income to go out of the company. I have said before, network is king, to loose some of that would be an error that would only come to light after the fact...

Youlive. The trustees report could not include CV19 but the one due this June may well make mention of it. At present NO report about anything can be definitive in respect to CV19 as we are still dealing with its impact. Until the situation stabilises its impact will not be known, as of now a report should only be seen as an update that will change and not definitive.

Youlive.
DYOR.
https://www.btpensions.net/assets/uploads/documents/BTPS-RA-2019.pdf
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOU ITS ALL OUT THERE...

The trustees report is dated 30 June 2019 the next trustees report will be end of June 2020 the 3 year full report will be released in June 2021 as it will be a full review of everything between June 17 and June 20 and will take a year to be done.
The info from last years report states the situation from June 18 to June 19 including the following from my previous post.

Under this recovery plan, BT paid a deficit contribution of £850 million and £2,000 million in March 2018 and June 2018 respectively, with a further contribution
of £1,250 million in June 2019. BT is obliged to
make a contribution of £400 m by June 2020.

Pension update June 2019.
The most recently completed full actuarial valuation was carried out at 30 June 2017. The valuation concluded the funding level of the Scheme (i.e. the ratio of assets to the estimate of accrued liabilities at the date of the valuation) was 81.4%. The corresponding past service deficit was £11,295 million.
The Trustee and BT have agreed a recovery plan such that BT will pay additional contributions in order to return the Scheme to a fully funded position by 31 March 2030.
Under this recovery plan, BT paid a deficit contribution of £850 million and £2,000 million in March 2018 and June 2018 respectively, with a further contribution
of £1,250 million in June 2019. BT is obliged to
make a contribution of £400 million by 30 June
2020. Thereafter, BT will make a series of further contributions of £700 million in 2021 and 2022, and £907 million per annum through to 2030 when the final payment is made.
The calculation of the past service deficiency for the 2017 valuation assumed that the Scheme will continue, and no allowance was made for the cessation of benefit accrual for most members of the Scheme with effect from 30 June 2018. The financial effect of the cessation of benefit accrual was considered as part of the funding update at 30 June 2018, and did not have a material impact on the funding position of the Scheme.
Legally binding agreements between the Trustee
and BT, reached in 2014 to improve the security of members’ benefits, were retained or improved as part of the 2017 agreement.
BT has agreed that if it generates net cash proceeds greater than £1,000 million from disposals, net of acquisitions, in any twelve month period and certain conditions apply, then BT will make additional contributions to the Scheme equal to one third of those net cash proceeds.
Hope this clarifies the most recent trustees update.

Bertram. Understand your thoughts in this matter but, at present VM do not use BTs network to provide broadband products where they do not have a local network. So for BT to demand access to the newly married VM company would mean having to do the same in return. At present BT gets income from VM for other products, such as Backhaul, where VM has to use BT to extend beyond there own network to the end user. I would rather they were at arms length and get some income as well.

Pound. But you are still are happy to use it’s services and products to not only post on this board, but to live your life and work. If you are that negative towards BT and it’s future the why are you allowing yourself to give it income. Stay off the net, don’t work, don’t watch TV or listen to the radio, then BT will fold much quicker and you will be happier.

Patrm. This is the bit people don’t get, BT has been paying the extra since it was first decided to make up the deficit in 2014. Unlike some companies at least BT is prepared to look after its pensioners rather than run away with the money leaving the pensioners with nothing. It’s nice to know that there are still some companies with morals and prepared to do the right thing by there staff in looking after there future.

Ell it can’t get worse, if it did you would not be able to make a post, there would be no internet in the UK without BTs network. No Bt No IP.