Member Info for mister_tidal

LET'S TALK ABOUT CROWD FUNDING LEGAL ADVICE?

I've always had the impression that the things SAE was presenting on their website was, to a meaningful degree, misleading. You'd have to dig a little in order to realize that what they write on their website is usually to be taken with a grain of salt.

But all this has increased and I feel more and more misled by these people.

What they communicate is a joke and it becomes increasingly shady.

There was talk of a lawyer a few posts ago. At that time I was still quite far away from something like that but honestly.. this is so incredibly intransparent I'm not comfortable with any of this anymore.

They simply CAN NOT do this to investors. Who do they think they are?!

LET'S TALK ABOUT CROWD FUNDING LEGAL ADVICE?

There will be no RNS.

@Renewable_Expert guess this doesn't really matter anymore. They did't get the +£100m or something that I would have expected. I mean, this is a project that saw a lot of investment over the years. The turbines alone did already cost some £50m (I assume). And all that research which has gone into this etc. You can't tell me that it's "normal" to sell a company like that for pocket change now that there's a CfD in the pocket.

The only thing that could make me "maybe" happy if I knew, SAE got at least a bigger stake in Proteus. But they won't tell..

@Renewable_Expert Okay, then maybe I misunderstood or he told me something wrong. I was actually wondering why something like this would be tied to the market cap. Doesn't make too much sense on second thought.

But anyway, 10% of their current total assets should be £8.4m if I look at "Total Assets" on yahoo [1].

Does that make sense?

[1]: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/sae.l/balance-sheet/

@Blonnyman again, how stupid would SAE be to NOT disclose that all their debt was gone? I'm pretty sure nothing changed.

I really wonder how not many people think there might be something pretty shady going on behind those closed doors.

@Money_nvr_sleeps According to google it's around £8m right now. I don't know on what date we have to look but it's been a while since SAE was above £15m so I'll just assume it's something between £10m and £15m.

The percentage? I really don't care about the precise percentage because I assumed that anybody who would want to buy SAE today would have to pay at least £200m to £300m pounds. Just a guess out of the blue because there is IP, there's been previous funding, they did the heavy lifting, there's apparently potential and some goodwill on top of that.

I truly don't care if they got £1m or £15m because from my point of view they just sold the entire for pennies.

For me it's the combination of all the things.

The apparent tiny amount of money for selling ATES
The knowledge that this amount won't do much to their current debt
The intransparency regarding their stake

but also the fact that they're not sharing anything else than an absolute high-level update on what just happened.

The thing what SAE has just become is actually one of the few things that are a bit clearer - at least I think so. They're a former tidal stream turbine manufacturer which just lost it's first level of vertical integration and which has to buy their turbines on the market now.

They told me they "want" to be able to buy turbines from different providers. I mean.. they've been leading this field. It doesn't really make any sense. Producing turbines themselves AND being able to sell them to others is the real deal at least imo.

I called them. They told me they don't have to make an RNS and disclose this if the amount of money is lower than a certain percentage of their market cap. Now.. what was their market cap again?

@Money_nvr_sleeps or maybe I try to dump the price even further so I can scoop up more shares tomorrow?

¯\_(?)_/¯

@Money_nvr_sleeps I'm not judging. I've been gambling too. SAE never was much else but the amount of gambliness has increased an order of magnitude. I can see how some people might speculate on a bounce here but without SAE explaining what their current deal is, on every level, it's really nothing more than speculation.

Sorry, we know they sold ATES for less than 10m so the debt is not going anywhere.

@Money_nvr_sleeps everyone can buy/sell hoe much they want but with the provided information I dare to say that this does not have anything with investing anymore. At this point it's just gambling.

@Blonnyman Well, think what you say is basically what we get but the thing here is that the debt will remain. Please check out "my phonecall with SAE" (different thread). They didn't get much here (probably less than £10m) which is what makes this whole things, in combination with said comms blackout, ever so worrying.

@littlegrandma I think that's wishful thinking (denial stage right there). Why would SAE not share this with us? Like "Hello party people, you know, we sold our turbine division but not all is bad, we wiped out our debt and have an exclusive deal with that new company Proteus which is going to supply us with turbines.. blah"?

I mean.. they suck at comms but this is way beyond just sucking..

Money_nvr_sleeps the problem here is that we're at the next level: Building assumptions on top of assumptions. I admit, that the facts alone are not much but let's be real here:

Nothing keeps them from sharing "great" news straight away. Lifting the SP won't hurt anybody. Not us. Not them.

Holding back so much information, not explaining such a step in much more details is so incredibly telling.

People can call me paranoid but come on.. Let's move to the next stage, shall we?

denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance
^
We are here

Yeah, or maybe, just maybe, SAE runs out of money and Proteus, that has gotten all that precious money, buys SAE and makes it private.

As you say, that's a guessing game here and, by any means, how would you invest in such a company? So.. no matter what they tell me.. it's their job to explain why people would want to buy their shares and right now they kind of do the opposite by seeding a huge load of uncertainty.

What is SAEs value right now (not talking about market cap)? No way to answer this right now..

@JD936 Thanks, good call!

That's "Hargreave Hale Limited, Asset Management Arm" I presume? According to Yahoo/SimplyWallst they have 116m/33m shares.

That's not a lot, unfortunately. I doubt that they'll get more out of them.

Inspired by @Strangy83, I decided to give SAE a call myself in order to get some information.

According to SAE, they did not release the money they get because it's below a certain %-threshold relative to their market cap. This tells us that they probably got less, if now way less, than 10 to £15m. I repeat: We don't know how much but LESS than 10 to £15m.

That's that.

Furthermore, they are, according to SAE, not releasing the size of the stake for two reasons: 1) It's again not hitting the size of a certain threshold and 2) they were adviced by "NOMAD and Joint Broker" to not disclose this because they want to buy turbines from anywhere and they'd be better off if that information remains disclosed (?). I don't get that last point.. but what it tells us is that SAE has probably a rather, rather small stake in Proteus.

I've been told that all this "enabled" SAE to focus on delivering turbines but I fail to see how selling that part that's making those turbines for some peanuts?

And that's that.

What I've been told is essentially that what they already communicated: They want to focus on tidal "projects" and not "turbines".

I still don't know or understand how this is supposed to make sense. I still see them selling that division literally for peanuts, because now we know, and I think we got fooled.

You can't tell me that something that has been developed since 2014 is only worth so little, that you're not even obligated to write an RNS.

Oh, and by the way, you can write an RNS voluntarily. Just in case somebody thinks otherwise.

"Outrageous" does not describe it..

And has this been fair game or was all this fraudulent?

@Strangy83 thank you for making that call!

> " ... it was explained that they did not need an RNS as it did not trigger or go above the trigger points / figures."

Ah, right. So when they received 2.5m it did go over those "triggers" and they sent out an RNS [1] apparently.

I am just being overly angry and say: So perhaps they sold ATES for peanuts to some of their former buddies on SAE who can now live happy ever after with a formerly publicly funded technology they can now call their own?

So, I presume, that means their "minority" stake is not mention worthy either?

So.. when they said "ATES got an investment", they meant to say that ATES now has that investment needed to build AR4, and not only didn't get SAE a mention worthy amount of money, the stake they are holding isn't either.

That's great.

I tell you guys, this company has fked us..

[1]: https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/SAE/sae-secures-funding-from-scottish-enterprise-8esjuwnbvs8a5j0.html

There's a contact form on their website as well: https://simecatlantis.com/investor-relations/contact-us/

So, feel free to knock on that door too.

@achilles because they sold the tidal turbine engineering part of the company to an unknown price and they remain stakeholder to an unknown size. This implies many, many further questions regarding how SAE is going to operate in the future, how it's going to benefit from that move etc. How would value the company if you don't have any information.

This is indeed ridiculous as it's absolutely unclear what this means for the company. It's a guessing game while the share price drops further. There has been an example [1] in the past where a company even got fined for not disclosing relevant inside information for MAR, Article 17 (1).

[1]: https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/aim-investment-company-fined-failing-disclose-inside-information-soon-possible

No RNS yet.

MAR, Article 17 (1)

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/aim-investment-company-fined-failing-disclose-inside-information-soon-possible