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It seems to me that some of the froth has gone out of Kaz's sp in that the sp, whilst still reacting to changes in the price of copper, seems to do so a bit sluggishly compared to a couple of months ago. Its like there is a bit more wait and see in the market. Just my thought.

graham - my point stands. When a company goes into administration the officers of the company surrender all authority to the administrator. Directors do not have to resign, but they cannot do anything without the agreement of the administrator. The Administrator must realise the best possible value for the assets, the Directors have no say as to how this is done. At the moment prior to the RNS the loan from Innovation was effectively an unsecured loan. This put Innovation in the same place as the other unsecured creditors. By formally securitising the loan notes Innovation/MT defend their position, not the position of the shareholders.

graham-wales; this is not the point of the RNS. The asset that is the stake in Call Design is being formally turned into a security for the loans by Innovation. The RNS is about Innovation protecting their position, they are not protecting the shareholders (large or small) or any Director or Officer of the Company. Don't forget that the stake in Call Design was valued at �280K plus 5 million shares which were 16p or so at the time - so the total valuation of 40% of Call Design at the time of purchase was just over the �1M mark. If you consider that the draw down facility has a total value of �1.4M and that this drawdown is funded by an exchange of cash for shares where the number of shares handed over is worked out by considering a share price of 16p then you might reconsider who, at the moment, is getting shafted. Especially when you consider that the shares are locked in, ie unsaleable for 1 year after each draw down. To put it another way, without any security Innovation have to give funding in return for shares worth 6.25% of the cash they are handing over. To repeat, �1.4M to be handed over by Innovation in return for shares worth �87,000 (todays value) The only way they can protect their investment is to securitise the stake in Call Design, which as I said above was considered to have been worth around �1M when it was purchased by BOS. I would point out the following; If the officers of the Company resist securitising Call Design and the Company goes into Administration before this happens, then the Administrator will sell off Call Design to the highest bidder, that could be anyone with sufficient money, including MT. In this case the money from such a sale would first be used to pay the Administrators fee's, they then give a dividend to the creditors, including Innovation, of perhaps 1p in the pound, whilst the shareholders get nothing. Everyone is screwed in this situation, except the Administrator. If the officers of the Company do not resist securitising Call Design over to Innovation and the Company then goes into Administration then although the Administrator will still sell the stake in Call Design to the highest bidder, it means that Innovation get first call on the money raised by the sale. Then the Administrator gets his fee, then the creditors get a dividend, let�s say 0.5p in the pound, and of course the shareholders get nothing. As BOS has not yet drawn down the whole of the facility I would guess that the value of Call Design that the Administrator will achieve will most probably just about cover Innovations loans and the Administrators fees (funny that), with yes you have guessed it, the creditors and shareholders getting screwed. In the short term, the only way out of this mess is for the creditors to considerably extend their credit period and for the Company to make some sales. All is not lost, creditors do extend their credit periods when faced wit

BRX7 - I would read the RNS in this way. "security interest in Innovation's favour under the terms of the Deed of Loan and Convertible Note" As meaning that the lender (Innovation) requires that the Company formally signs over its interest in any assets it has (ie Call Design) as formal security for the loans that have been made / or may be made in the future. In the event that the Company fails, is put into Administration, or sold, then the lender has first call on the asset. Imagine you are falling behind on your mortgage payments, this is like the bank reminding you that you don't own the part of the house that you have not paid off. It doesn't help the cash flow situation that is being faced now unless the lender can be convinced that there is sufficient value left in Call Design to lend against - bearing in mind what has already been agreed / done. It doesn't help creditors (except Innovation) in the event of Administration. It does mean that nobody (including MT) can simply put the business into Administration then do a quick deal to buy out Call Design on the cheap and then ride off into the sunset. So if this Company ultimately crashes and burns, the only entity that gets anything will be Innovation. Do you like the smell of Naplam in the morning ? I could be wrong.

You could livecharts, its free

Q - How much was MT's renumeration while he was MD at BOS? A - Too much

I would contribute the old adage: "sell on news, buy on rumour"

China, obviously not Vhina, sorry my bad typo

The market seems to be ok with a copper price of $3.15 Predict it will edge up and over $3.2 as we approach Vhina's monthly consumption data around 9th of the month. Suggest that good consumption figures will stick the $3.2 level with trades up to $3.25 If this all happens then agree that sp will be in the �9 territory

Bottled - wonderful mistake when pressing the keys towardss the end of your post. Question, were you sitting down ?

No significant shorts on this company reported at www.shorttracker.co.uk No idea on what people might be doing if trading CFD'si

Bottled - my reading of the charts and market activity is like this, at the moment ! Australia, opens and doesn't have much to say China opens and generally pushes the price up Europe opens and pushes the price down London, opens and swings both ways (very cosmopolitan) New York, opens and swings boths ways, but more than London does We all go to bed not quite knowing what will happen the next day ! For my money I think the recent leg up will stick above $3.15 ......... for the moment

lemmink - Just remember with KAZ and Copper, the price can go down by 10% in a day. This presents opportunities, as much as heart attacks !!

On the last run from $2.9 per Lb up to $3.1 the Chinese market generally opened higher at 1am UK time. Same thing when it went back down. It seemed to me that, of all the market opening movements, the Chinese led the way, so to speak. Don't loose sleep over it, just check out the overnight action on something like livecharts

Lemmink - China will decide your immediate fate in the early hours, about 1am UK time I think. Long term, easy hold for win !

Copper up at 3.08 Has to be a blue day

Ha, time flies alright Tucson Not so long ago I was thinking that my ISA was looking a bit of a minger. Then some poster mentioned Kaz at just over �2, I looked and my journey began I got worried at �3 Brave again at �4 Worried again at �6 but stood my ground Now I am not worried at all !!! Think it will soon climb up to 850 plus again, as copper pushes up around 3.1 Might even go past �9 later this year.

Tucson is right if you ask me, as the cost of ownership of electric cars is dropping then us plebs, sorry the market, will simply shift. The infrastructure will follow the market, and boom, petrol will die, just like diesel is now dying.

During the last rise up over $3/Lb I noted a peak copper price of $3.14/Lb together with a peak KAZ sp of 874. Now we have a copper price that is a shade under $3.03/Lb and the sp is already touching 860. Which says to me that either the sp is ahead of the game, or The recent company news has improved the sp, so that we are starting from an inherently higher position which will mean that we will pass 874 before copper passes that recent high of $3.14, or There is more interest in the potential of copper, so more demand for Kaz's share, not just because of the leverage against copper, but also now the prospect of a dividend, or Kaz is in the middle of a perfect storm of all of these factors. My only note of caution is the possbility of a retrace back down to 700 like last month, due a drop in the copper price, but that (in my view) only gives another opportunity to ratchet up your holding on what would be the next run at $3/Lb Yes, I am a Bullish on copper ! I am thinking Copper will get to $4 within the next year. All our green politicians are spending the copper Dollar with their numerous Green projects and supply is constrained. What's not to like ! Where's my electric car, oh it's plugged in and charging, so not going anywhere for a while, ha ha

Seems to me that nowadays the Kaz share price (after all the restructuring, management shuffle and dividend promise in the offing) more or less follows the copper price, so Bollinger Band analysis on the price of copper might be a way to make some money. If you now look at the copper price and apply Bollinger bands with the period set at 1 day you can see that the copper price more often than not rises after hitting the lower 1 day Bollinger band limit. The lower limit being the "buy" signal for some traders. This is what has happened in the last few days. If you look at the upper Bollinger Band limit then it has regularly tracked this upper limit upwards, ie it has not fallen on this so called sell signal, certainly not with 1 day set as the period, but you can use this upper limit as a sell signal if you use a shorter time period, but then you might end up day trading and having to buy back in at a higher share price. The next interesting point arrives when the price reaches the moving average for the Bollinger Band, ie the middle ine, sometimes this is a sell for a rising price, and sometimes it is a buy for s falling price. Google finance and livecharts have very good Bollinger Band tools. Just my thoughts, if there is a better pointer to the way things will go, then feel free to disagree For what it is worth, I think we are on our way back to £8+ GLA