Member Info for Longterminvstor

You are welcome Vas.

It took me some time to get used to the way that the Indian numerical system, was recorded in print, with the different terminologies. I cannot seem to find any date, for the actual Request for Proposal or if the tender had a submission date?

I will look again later and let you know if I find anything.

LTI.

Thank you Vas,

With reference to your 21:08 post, I think the number confirmed in the tender document, is 400,000 meters/connections.

LTI.

Sorry, should read " personally."

LTI.

Good evening Ted,

It is interesting that you have confirmed that you " ..... contacted someone senior ...... " with someone CyanConnode may be dealing with. Unbelievable.

I seem to remember not long after the TNEB problem, you confirmed on the bb, that you were having conversations with a direct competitor of Cyan(Connode). If anyone needs a reason why I have continually suggested that CyanConnode should limit the amount of information they publically give share-holders in RNS's, ( and the world in general ) about individal contracts, until the deals are 100% sealed, then here is the reason.

You do not know who is feeding information to who. What connections individual posters have to other companies. Or who any poster is, that you do not know persoanally.

LTI.

Good evening MayNotMatter.

Do not concern yourself over my share-holding. As I am sure you are not. But just to cut down on the typing, could you please clarify:-

a) Who has got the contract(s) over the years to install/provide the 5 million meters that you mentioned, whether it be with one order or multiple orders. Or is it still just " ...... could be ....... ?"

b) Can you indicate, if the 6LowPan RF Technology was provided by the meter manufacturer, or by another company. As I mentioned previously, I like to keep an eye on the competiton.

c) Can you indicate how far the MSEDCL have progressed with the installation of the potential 25,000,000 meters/smart meters, for the MSEDCL estate as a whole.

LTI.

Good evening Vas,

I noticed that earlier. It mentions HPL. It mentions post-paid and pre-paid meters. It mentions different solutions. But unless I have missed it, it does not give any numbers of meters?

I believe it is a Clarication of Queries. But it does mention Smart and it is from March 2019.

LTI.

MrStrongViolent,

As I understand it MNM has suggested that MSEDCL has been adopting 6LowPAN for years. And then MNM goes on to suggest that " And so far there could be more than 5 million meters with 6LowPAN RF Mesh technology in Sub-Gz frequency consumed by them."

But we do not know exactly how many, just " .... could be ..... ?"

If the project has gone ahead, over the years, with positive results for the 5 million installs, personally I am suprised that Indian Government have not picked up on the 6LowPan RF technology long ago and incorporated it in the smart meter/smart grid rollout. Or maybe even MSEDCL would have rolled the project out passed the 5 million, as they have the huge customer base to do so.

25,000,000 consumers, at the last count.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maharashtra_State_Electricity_Distribution_Company_Limited

Any idea who is providing the 6LowPAN RF Mesh, to MSEDCL? I would be interested. Keeping an eye on the competition is always a good thing.

LTI.

I tend to agree, tonyj.

The $11 route seems to have been tried and did not provide what the client or the utilities with the overall solution they wanted.

And now with the introduction of IntelliSmart, to assist EESL in the overall running of the smart meter programe, we hope that the situation will take on a faster pace.

LTI.

It certainly is, tonyj.

LTI.

...... transfer, involving their ISA's, before the end of the tax year.

LTI.

Hello CB,

I was unaware that " ..... the roll-out stopped ..... " Just that it had slowed down. Let me clear something up for you, from my point of view.

15 million meters, smart or not, was always going to be a tall order for any company, or group of companies. I think it is fare to say that you have looked down on the CyanConnode orders, numerically, in comparison to the EESL tenders. But the orders in India that CyanConnode were awarded, have been installed successfully. As have some for EESL.

With a number of Partners and contractors/sub-contractors, that have been assembled, contributing to the successful installations.

This is something that will be essential with a massive programe like the Indian smart meter programe.

250 million meters, smart or not, is going to be a massive challenge for any company, or group of companies. It is not just the numbers, it is the logistics of it all and the time-scale. Personally, I think it will be longer than the 3 years that the Indian Government envisage.

But I am not getting " .... bogged down ..... " as you put it, with the 250 million meters. ( Smart or not.) As share-holders, we have been given a figure of approximately 4%/5% of the 250 million, to translate into RF meters. Between 10 million to 12.5 million RF meters, out of 250 million, once the India smart meter programe gets underway.

LTI.

Thank you for the information MrStrongViolent.

I was unaware that it was a live tender. So well done to Genus, for providing the initial info and yourself for providing the tender information available. I got as far as the e/procurement, with the information that you posted, but then noticed that you had provided some other information.

So this " Phase-4 " tender had a Deadline for Submission date, of 17th September 2019. So 4.5 months on and there has still been no definitive decision that has been made. Which is not suprising as there will be discussions to be had and details to be finalised.

So whether the EESL/IntelliSmart Round-Table event, during early November, will have a bearing on this particular tender, as it was already underway at the time, we will have to wait and see.

LTI.

You are welcome tonyj.

Just highlighting some of the information that was provided in the Genus report. With some additional info on Genus.

LTI.

Good morning CB,

I would be interested if you could point me towards the section of my 21:48 post yesterday, that led you to assume the " ..... seems to delight you for some reason " part of your 23:58 post last night and your 09:48 post today. Just re-stating what was in the Genus Power document.

Yesteday you thanked me for posting the report and made 2 points. One about Chinese hardware and BI. And the other about Genus Power having their own basic meter. I made some points of my own.

If you want " rejoicing," as you put it, try this post from you CB:- " Throughout 2018, EESL begin implementation of 15 million smart meter installs making it the largest volume program in India. Scale due to increase through 2019 and beyond, the Indian market matures daily, without CC interaction."

The true installation position was I believe, highlighted, in the Genus report.

And the remark about " Maybe you should support the Indian team more." Try this post from yourself, CB:- " Look, if the " closed door " event was real, CC would have sent someone really senior, it's not like they are to busy is it. No, instead they send a comparitive Tea Boy, who presumably made the tea."

So not very " supportive " from yourself CB.

As I posted yesterday, " ..... it would seem a lot of lessons have been learned from the early EESL multi-million meter tenders."

But the mention of an " EESL tender 4 " from the Genus report, which I mentioned and stated that " ...... which we hope will be more successful."

Personally, I think there is a possibility, that the original electric meter tenders, that have been cancelled, will be incorporated/included in " EESL tender 4." So not altogether cancelling the tenders completely, just re-tendering them, to include smart and non-smart. Which probably did not happen initially, if they were all based on GPRS.

Whether the new tenders will be multi-million tenders, as before, remains to be seen. The electric meter market and the smart electric meter market, needs to be identified and separated and the reporting of progress, by the press, also needs to be correct.

The smart meter market and the Indian government requirements for " smart meters " has changed since the first EESL tenders were floated. The situation has, in my opinion, progressed.

LTI.

Hello CB,

With reference to your 13:11 post, it would seem a lot of lessons may have been learned from the early EESL multi-million meter tenders. Of which you were a strong supporter, I seem to remember.

In Tender 1 - there was a 5 million meter tender issued, with only 1.4 million meters delivered. And 1.2 million were delivered by Genus. It seems to suggest that the remainder may have been cancelled.

Tender 2 - there was a 5 million meter tender issued, from which EESL issued an order for 1.5 million meters and a 3.5 million meter tender was scrapped. Out of the 1.5 million meters ordered, only 30,000 have been delivered.

Tender 3 - EESL issued a tender for 5 million meters, which they have scrapped.

And now we have, according to Genus Power, a potential for an EESL " Tender 4," which we hope will be more successful. Genus do not indicate the number of meters for the tender, at this stage, but they do suggest that they ( EESL ) have made " ...... the pre-qualification far stringent so that they can have good Indian manufacturers be part of the tender."

But whereas, with all the early multi-million meter tenders being extensively covered by yourself, the cancellations of tenders and short deliveries, seem to have passed without comment.

The Sampoora meter has been produced successfully by Genus Power for several years. And they have manufactured over 60 million of them, according to Genus. So why partner with CyanConnode?

A few years ago, Genus partnered with Cyan ( pre IPv6 ) and then left to Partner a Canadian PowerLine Communications company. But eventually they came back to CyanConnode and formed a stronger relationship.

LTI.

........ January 27th, 2020 Conference Call.

http://genuspower.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/TransciptSW.pdf

- Chinese manufacturers mentioned for EESL. Tender scrapped after 2 years.

- It mentions about the proportion of meters, at the moment being 40% for smart meters and 60% being for conventional meters.

- It also mentions about other meter tenders that have been scrapped and about " ...... now they have come out with the EESL 4 Tender, where they have made the pre-qualification far stringent, so they can have good Indian manufacturers to be part of the tender."

- Also from the report:- " So, almost every state electricity board is having a very strong traction, on the smart metering tenders. So there are a lot of openings right now. So as such, almost the whole country is going ahead with the smart meters, when it comes to opportunities available."

An interesting insight about the progress and challenges, for the smart meter programme in India, from one of CyanConnodes Partners.

LTI.

Good morning Pedro,

A good observation, young man.

Good luck,

LTI.

Thank you for " the quint " report Imperial. Very interesting.

Historically, not all of the multi-million meter tenders, have been smart. If they had been, they would not have to instruct or legislate for it now.

So there was very little requirement/no requirement for CyanConnode with these historic tenders. But we hope that is about to change.

The figures from Anil, during July 2019, giving the total requirement of 250m electric meters with a total translating from that of 125m smart meter requirement, began to give the true requirement, that would translate into " smart meters."

The new requirment/legislation seems to have concentrated minds, on what needs to be done.

Also a relevant passage from the report that Vas posted, a point I have made in the past concerning the reference to " smart meters," when they were not/are not " smart meters " at all.

" The reservation of the term " smart " is neccessary since it has been used, elsewhere, even for " non-smart " goods. Even in the energy meter sector, the Automatic Meter Reading ( AMR ) segment, that had a a big market from 2005 to 2015, was wrogly categarised as " smart."

The regular press has put " smart meters " on many tenders over the last few years, which has not neccessarily been the case.

Just journalistic licence.

Thanks again Imperial.

LTI.

Good afternoon Imperiallondon,

A good find Imperial with relevant information. So thank you for that.

It does seem, from the Gazette of India document, that there seems to be a pulling together of various departments ( Discoms and Utilities ) for a start, to all deliver on the same smart meter/smart grid initiative. With also a recognition that the situation had to change going forward, from where we have been over the last 2/3 years.

As you have indicated, hopefully onward and upward.

Thanks again.

LTI.

Good morning Vas/tony.s and all.

I think it is fair to say, that EESL has been successful globally, as well as locally in India, with the distribution and installation of LED lighting. Where they seem to have a problem is the implementation and installation of the multi-million meter tenders, coupled with the AT&C losses incurred by the utilities, which have not decressed, but increased over the last couple of years, since the tenders have been implemented, as has recently been reported.

As I understand it, EESL provide the meters, vertually FOC to the utilities and the utilities pay EESL out of their savings, through lower losses. This, as has been confirmed recently, has not happened. So I cannot see how EESL have been paid.

That is why, I believe IntelliSmart were brought in, to oversee the smart meter delivery programme and infrastructure development.

As always, this is just my opinion and observation.

LTI.