Member Info for kontiki2

Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density#/media/File:Energy_density.svg

Https://www.hydrogeninsight.com/policy/scotland-and-ireland-in-talks-to-build-a-subsea-hydrogen-pipeline-between-the-two-nations/2-1-1702524

Especially when more investors realize that GMS vessels are vitally involved in wind farm installations.

I'm not sure that the "GB energy" project really 'gets' the energy storage need. Almost as if GBE converts have not read last September's Royal Society report on long term energy storage.. which some feel even under-estimates the challenge. I fear GBE will fall back on nuclear and natural gas, but home-grown versions of the latter are getting shutdown. Nuclear is expensive, all the more so as UK seems to have to import the tech now. Small modular reactors will be too small and way over budget/time.. I hope I am wrong and that GBE do have a plan to establish H2 as the key vector for long term energy storage. It certainly seems the best option at the moment. To delay, and expect that something better will be invented would be folly. However H2 gen+storage will require a clever pricing model to encourage the necessary investment but if it can be combined with export (e.g. to Europe) that would be ideal. Sadly, another decade wasted with paralysis analysis (or is it the other way around), during which we could have been making/distributing H2 instead of curtailing excess energy, e.g. the scandalous NG grid connection delays. So plenty to look forward to, if the gov and GBE dont lose the plot.

@bilbo that's easy to say when it is not in your backyard. large lithium battery storage, and solar parks encroaching on prime farmland are still hotly contentious issues for safety and agri-environmental reasons. neither are particularly beneficial in terms of storage duration nor production capacity. enlightened objectors often suggest alternative energy storage types or sp****r wind turbines that may be more acceptable. i suspect that cost and incentives skew the decision making - this has to change if planning is to be relaxed.

Thanks for pointing that out. Right down in the small print, and often confused with CCS.

Frustration on my part, not negativity.

Many H2 projects are held up by the classic supply and demand conundrum, and too much negativity about H2 has dampened down the demand side, at least in public perception. Yet growth is the only way to lowering costs. Kicking off a huge H2 P2G energy storage project would help. I believe most commentators are in agreement for that need, but that is a mega investment on a grid scale. National Grid's recent rights issue of £7B still has a long way to go, another £57B. This to address the scandalous renewable energy connection delays and upgrade the grid. A sobering thought is that over half UK's existing power distribution is via the gas pipeline grid, a significant proportion being transported and burnt to make electricity.

Great British Energy - did anyone mention long term energy storage?

Are there any adults in charge, anywhere?

Remember this?: BNOC->Britoil---> Acquired by BP in 1988

GBE->?

Meanwhile in China: https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-07-16/chinas-renewable-energy-boom-breaks-records/104086640

Develop high tech to image and understand the petroleum geology. Invest vast sums to develop marine engineering to drill and recover O&G. Transport it and build pipelines. Build refineries, store and distribute the products to the world. Nay, far too inefficient. Let's 'just make' hydrogen...

Of the "H2 Today" comments: hear hear!

The ball will get rolling when enough people realize that hydrogen is still our best route to achieve long term (renewable) energy storage, as per the Royal Society report. The scale required is enormous on a 100s of TW(H) level, orders of magnitude greater than the biggest batteries - even redox flow batteries - in existence. This requires massive investment at a grid level but also very careful planning at a market level because the objective is to generate excess energy for storage (and for potential export), and retain it - for use during long cloudy cold windless periods, e.g. Dunkelflaute. Storage i/p is mostly continuous, but storage o/p is intermittent, hence the need to design a market to allow it to be a profitable venture. The UK has vast potential for i/p, but without storage we are doomed and a massive export opportunity will be lost.

Nice to see an appetite for hydrogen fuelling again, especially in electric energy rich Norway where continued reliance on BEV cables and long waits is just so so tiresome. SP up 100% in a week.

0.5% of total annual demand does not sound much from curtailment alone, but that is 1 or 2 days worth of total UK demand which could have been provided by the potential stored hydrogen. As https://renewablesnow.com/news/uk-wind-curtailment-cost-in-past-two-years-put-at-gbp-806m-787668/ points out, that amounts to £800M wasted. If you then add all the 'curtailment' of all the unconnected renewable energy schemes, estimated as somewhere between 200 and 400GW. Then multiply that by the HOURS waiting in the queue for connection to the grid. Just a queue of 1 year = 400Gw * 365 * 24 = 3504 TWh (at peak of course). Not hard to see that overcapacity in renewable electricity generation can be a real winner, with H2 storage.

..and a significant proportion of excess electricity generation right now should go into creation of green hydrogen for long term energy STORAGE as concluded by the Royal Society report, and plan for a lot lot more. After all fusion power is just around the corner ;)

Meanwhile O&G COs see a strong potential for re-purposing disused geological reservoirs for H2 storage. Especially sub-basalt. They want to survive the transition too, bless them. Again that should not be a negative, provided that the H2 is green not blue! IMHO to lessen the methane emission potential in the process of blue H2 production. That way all the high tech sub-surface imaging & offshore/onshore engineering capability survives too. win-win!

Agreed!

Spain's renewable energy is already exceeding demand: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czkkgnp1d2xo

There is a huge backlog of renewable energy projects awaiting grid connection, both in UK and USA. The National Grid rights issue(S) to raise £60Bn should begin to address this. Meanwhile all the negativity about green hydrogen, including the claim that it is purely an O&G initiative, seems to have damaged projects to divert excess electrical power to hydrogen production on the supply side and limit potential uses, so simultaneously damaging the demand side of the equation.

New windfarm projects can be completed more speedily and with greater capacity than ever and floating wind farms will offer a huge uptick in overall capacity, triggering the potential for offshore green hydrogen production.

Meanwhile for balance read: https://www.respectmyplanet.org/publications/fuel-cells/michael-liebreichs-hydrogen-ladder-debunked

Ditto and there's still 57Bn of RI to come.

The real scandal is how many years worth of unconnected renewable energy has been lost. Various estimates, a potential 200GW multiplied by the time in HOURS of GWh squandered.

SP on 12th? 53Bn to go

Https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/in-depth/a-boom-with-a-queue-tackling-the-uk-renewables-gridlock/

200GW wasted - add that to navel gazing

Short increased further today. NG is in different territory.

I'm nearly out.

You asked this on the day a short was opened..

Investment to fix this crazy connection backlog https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65500339

and as electricity grid operator to ensure it has access to vast energy storage. I've been waiting for this to dawn on NG, but I still got burned when it happened.