Member Info for JohnNth

Wolfie...I worked in that environment over 20 years ago and so now completely out of the loop. Likes of Microsoft, Amazon makes more use of low tax countries like Ireland and Luxembourg, but it will be a challenge once eurozone fiscal union gets under way. Private equity and small to medium sized business EVADING taxes makes more use of countries like the Caymans. Of course that is not to say bigger companies dont use such countries as well.

It is conceivable the new CINE registered in a tax haven will make a charge against its business anywhere in the world for the right to use its patents and trademarks. Add this to the tax losses accumulated to date, it will be a very long time in the future before new CINE start paying any tax anywhere in the world.

Exactly Wolfie. Some companies do use transfer pricing to suck out profits from countries like the UK but the rules have been tightened regards this in recent years.

Maidit...im well versed on how tax havens work, having administered companies based in the BVI and Caymans in the past. I hated it having had to pay full tax here in the UK whilst those earning lot more got away scot-free. And these tax dodgers never even put a foot in those countries and many dont even know where they are located on the map.

Legislation have tightened a bit since then and some havens like BVI have become more transparent. I think Panama and Caymans tops the list in secrecy.

Lastly, I will confess, just like CWWX earlier, I noticed 2 weeks ago I was still holding 1,300 CINE in my SIPP purchased at 77p in 2021...too late to sell now and Im not expecting miracles. Im too scared to check my SIPP and wont be doing again for a very long time .

As for new CINE owners, they cant run anywhere if CINE pays down the debt. Its like the house on mortgage. If you keep up payments all is fine. If you dont you lose it and you dont have a say what the bank does with it.

ps. Apology for apostrophe and such errors in the text. I have this bl**dy keyboard which has 5 characters to each key at top and so dont know if Im coming or going with it.

C130...tax havens are awful, they make my blood boil. Many popular ones are UK dependent territories and we have turned a blind eye to them over many decades. UK takes the view that benefits of maintaining status quo outweighed the cost as tax evaded ended up laundered in the city of London. But now many new comers like Abu Dhabi and Dubai which are not UK dependent territories are increasingly proving popular, as well as smaller countries within the eurozone in the absence of full fiscal union.

It is an issue which requires global consensus and we are not going to get that anytime soon as almost all large US corporate giants are deeply involved in it.

" while raking in millions from the UK customers without paying UK TAX ?? it just seems too unbelievable for any Judge to past it"

maidit, how and where the new entity is registered and how they manage their tax affairs is none of judge business. Judge Isgur will be presiding over an application where CINE business is transferred over to the creditors in exchange for debt. An agreement which is all but agreed by the mookster and co on behalf of sh with overwhelming percentage of lenders/creditors.

ATB

Thanks pb. Whatever the view, only right shareholders voice gets heard, especially in this case where the mookster have kept everyone in the dark for the past year.

I will send you an email in support.

Ae...any idea when AIX portal comes on stream?

Hex and brownian...you are both on the money. Mook the crook with the help of Mr Cohen (CINE CFO) have imposed an information blackout on CINE shareholders whilst he strives to carve out a role for him in CINE future which would enable him to syphon off CINE assets cheaply from the liquidators.

Regards audited figures, as Hex points out these will be 6 months out of date and any interim figures/information submitted for 2023 will of course not be audited and so we are once again at the mercy of the mookster. Judge Isgur might desperately want to help shareholders but the gulf between realisable value of CINE assets and liabilities will be simply too big for him to ignore and hence not leave him with any other option than to allow creditors/lenders to take away CINE from shareholders.

Thanks BeReyt, JAB and Redinjun...what this bb should be all about. Bouncing info/ideas off each other to further understanding of issues at hand.

Further, I think a formal split in terms of separate listing will be in super quick time given actions announced yesterday.

JAB...POLY have outlined benefits of redomiciling including ability to purchase and dispose of assets within Russia. Not once have they mentioned avoiding the 50% penalty...but why should they?

I am still baffled by POLY announcement yesterday, the split would have delivered all that be it few months down the road. After reading this article, may be theres more to it than meets the eye.

Thanks Redinjun for the Joseph article in perfect english!

CT...all companies you name have trading arms/subsidiaries in the west and so they will be balancing their business in Russia with that in the west and will make decision which best fits. Obviously, in the current circumstances there will be fewer buyers of such business inside Russia which makes it a buyers market and hence impact on sale price.

POLY is different because it is not dependent on the west for its income, unlike companies you mention. Also, it is able to replace western equipment used in the mines with that made in China, which Nesis said the company is already doing. West is important in as much as it provides listing of its stock on developed countries stock exchanges. In short, unlike the companies you mention, POLY cannot be cornered into a forced sale as it has no trading interests in the west.

H118...Ill be happy holding both separately. I think POLY R will yield bigger divi but appreciate less in value and vice versa for POLY K.

Yes I can see the logic. Why risk having the sanctions imposed on POLY before the split, and face the problem of having sanctions removed once POLY Kaz splits from POLY Rus. Completely detaching the company to the point of not even recognising any inter-company transactions removes all doubts and safeguards POLY from any potential sanctions immediately. It protects Nesis as well, although Russian authorities may view the whole move with cynicism, and that is a risk.

Https://www.lse.co.uk/news/POLY/polymetal-considers-sale-of-russian-assets-executives-at-unit-resign-5cz27h7cjjtiwqd.html

Maidit...any figures banded about by CINE are only valid if it factors in all the liabilities which it should be paying down like due debt interest and rents. Figures are meaningless without it.

@Redinjun...right at the end the mention of $20k per oz gold in the near future means POLY could be worh ???????????

BSR...Im saying that when POLY splits in few months time, it will deliver all that is included in the RNS today anyway, so why have the company taken/announced such actions today? POLY isnt exposed to the west in any big way in trading terms so they could have just left things as they are and let the split sort out matters of separation.

I think it may be more to do with Nesis personally staying out of the firing line in any new Western sanctions and not a lot to do with selling of Russian assets.

Bug-blue...its no car crash but a risk aversion exercise with a view to maximising shareholder value.

"they can just leave them in situ, and load them with debt "

This only possible if the money borrowed is solely in the name of POLY Russian entity or lenders agreeing to it. POLY doesnt decide this, its the lenders or any agreements in place with the lenders.

"sale without the Kremlin discount."

BSR...you mean without the FULL Kremlin discount? For now it remains just speculation. It could even be for reasons Nesis himself personally might want to avoid being targeted in any future western sanctions, and nothing to do with selling off Russian assets. Two thirds of all money spent on developing mines is in Russia, so why would you want to walk away from all that investments/infrastructure. I just cannot see Nesis letting go of POLY Russian business cheaply, cos he owns nearly a quarter of it himself.