Member Info for jakeandelwood

Perhaps Wirepas and CC are the front runners......?

Yes LTI noticed that. I made the assumption that 3.3m was the order for Wirepas of which they had deployed 256k, that's how it reads to me.

Hi Colour ,yes it's from the Hardman report.
It's well worth reading the report again to fully digest and understand the rationale behind what Hardman are reporting. Does anyone know if CC pay for their service? I imagine they do.

Hi LTI.
- " Wirepas RF Mesh has two profiles in 865-868MHz and 1.9GHz; One with IPv6 6LoWPAN which is available for Electricity Smart metering business ( Order Booked - 3.3 Million and successful deployment of 256k.)"
That's what I thought. I'm a little surprised,that being the case that Hardman, as much suggested there was little competition.
At some point I imagine,with India, it will come down to price for the successful bidders.
It is a pity some light could not be shed on Anil,s move between the companies. I guess March will reveal all.

Morning LTI.
The info is in the form of an email which contains some personal details so I cannot forward as you will appreciate. Finding your way around their website I found quite cumbersome and time consuming. The detail is essentially a copy and paste from the email. The company have confirmed they can only release what is in the public domain.
If you email the company ,(they responded to me within 24 hrs) and ask for any info that's in the public domain I am sure they will oblige as they have with me. The contact details are on the website I linked below. Wirepas arrived later than most in India so most relevant research info will be post 2019. Hope that helps.
https://www.wirepas.com/products/wirepas-massive

LTI may be of interest and the result of my own research but answers your earlier questions.

1)Wirepas Mesh operates on all three ISM Bands 865-868 Mhz, 1,9 Ghz and 2.4 Ghz.
2)Wirepas Mesh 865Mhz- 868 Mhz is used specifically for India Smart Metering Business and also meets the new requirements published by Department of Telecom, Govt Of India on 13th Dec 2021
3)Wirepas RF Mesh has two profiles in 865- 868Mhz and 1.9Ghz;
One with IPv6, 6LoWPAN which is available for Electricity Smart metering business (Order Booked – 3.3 Million and successful deployment of 256k
4)The Second RF Mesh profile on 865- 868Mhz/ 1.9Ghz is on IPv4 and is being used is Street Lighting, Gas Metering, Water Metering as of now where battery consumption ( Less than 10 Micro Amps and Very High Meter to Gateway Ratio is mandatory.
Happy to be corrected as this is from DMOR and is ALL in the public domain if you care to look.
As you keep saying Tony. AIMO DYOR.

Hi Tony. "CEO's tend to talk up their new company"
So what your saying is Anil is to believed when he's at CC with what he says but when he's elsewhere he's not to be believed??
It cannot be both, perhaps it's just the money and saying what you want people to believe wherever he goes........or perhaps he's not the second coming and expert some people think?
Over the years I've seen many "experts" swapping roles and companies on a regular basis and making a fantastic living at it before they get found out. We used to call it the Butterfly Effect.
Like I say for me an open mind.

Morning LTI .
You seemed a bit touchy. It was not my intention to knock CC, the conversation began, I believe around potential competitors? My links were just around that. I have been satisfied to keep an open mind as to how much CC may or may not get, based upon my own research,I don't think however it will be anywhere near numbers thrown around by some. I'm sure however it should be profitable.
You may recall the following from what some are suggesting is an expert in the field.........
“Wirepas has developed a perfect technology for massive IoT applications: easy to install and commission as well as infinitely scalable. Indian utilities can wisely have their investment in smart meters beyond getting monthly billing data and set up an IoT network with multi applications to be future ready. We intend to create utility’s own private network to communicate with various elements of grid at minimal cost and reduced dependency on external providers. Smart grid monitoring and controlling solutions, like transformer monitoring, feeder monitoring and remote control of these will now be a reality leading to smart grid. We will be able to deliver a “Make In India” product in the market," ........none other than our very own..... Anil Daulani.
Now unless proven otherwise that statement is factual information or Anil,s credibility is on the line. On that basis I think an open mind is my stance.

Morning LTI.
Overview of various mesh networks and application.
https://ubidots.com/blog/iot-mesh-network/

Hi LTI thanks for the response.
https://www.newelectronics.co.uk/content/news/wirepas-non-cellular-5g-technology-gets-itu-r-approval
Looks to me Wirepas have been moving towards Open Protocol for a while.
Again I said I believed many years back that anyone trying to market anything closed protocol would fall by the wayside.
Within the security industry lots of manufactures tried this to tie customers to their products, CCTV for one. It wasn't long before there was a standard protocol for cameras that worked across a whole range of head end devices.
Out for the day now so offline. Have a good weekend all.....footballs back !

Tony read the article fully and do further research. You miss the point as always. Wireless is one of many options out there,it's open protocol and can deal with various frequencies, is IPV6 etc. It is being installed and is proven....worldwide.
Again Tony there are multiple options out there ,CC are not as it seems suggested by Hardman,unique,that's why I take everything in those types of reports with a very large pinch of salt and do my on follow up research and clarification of what the reports say.
Investing and trading shares to cover your investment position requires more than believing everything paid article writers or analysts say. Take the info, research it,confirm the validity,act on it. It's not that difficult. Sometimes you will get it wrong but it's your mistake,not someone else,s. It's easy enough to lose money through your own mistakes as to have someone else do it for you.
On a bit of a tangent some may recall a $23m order in Sept 2017 for Ukraine a few years back,13m Inthe first year and the rest in the next couple of years? With the issues in Ukraine I would assume this will be affected? At the time that was one order I thought could be built upon long term.

You beat me to it Colour.
You may recall many months ago I brought up Wirepas. I was accused by some at the time of being negative if I recall.
I've always said there were options. It just depends what quantity of the business CC can win. I do get frustrated when some , including ,it seems, Hardman suggest CC are the Golden Ticket.

LTI for info.
https://staceyoniot.com/wirepas-is-a-mesh-network-built-for-scale/
The article is from 2019 but even back then it was IPV6. In any event a gateway could be utilised, as the article confirms

So they open an Indian subsidiary like CC. I'm sure with an already working solution it would be too hard making it compliant. Unless of course the Indian Government want in for very small cost per unit......

At least two companies have also had a solution in place throughout the US for years ....but apparently CC have no competition. Perhaps Hardman could revisit and explain the rationale for their research results?
I think you are correct Colour ,niche product. It should therefore have a premium margin. I think CC will get a proportion of the avaible deliverables. The question is how much and at what margin.

Did JC not say 3% or so Tony or did I miss something?

Tony I think ,for me ,Colour nailed this month's back. The CC solution is a niche product for any problem areas that should arise.
Around 40 years working in an industry that utilises Comms in a big way I have seen many products that provide solutions for my industry, niche products for various problems that mainstream tech could not deliver.
CC have their own niche solution and developed this to support the smart industry. Now the issue as I see it.
"With the Indian standard set high CC will take some beating especially as they now do all forms of Comms and of course price comes into it."
Mainstream off the shelf standard products that all deliver a similar end product/solution will always be competively priced.,.....due to competition among the various providers.
Niche products ,by their nature should always be more expensive with larger margin due to, if nothing else the development costs compared to the number of units being sold, it's basic economics.
Now ,due to "commercially sensitive " reasons CC,will not disclose their cost or margin,sensible to avoid giving any potential advantage to competitors.
To suggest however that CC will benefit as their solution is low cost and then suggest CC are the only solution is therefore niche (smaller numbers required) is crazy ,it cannot be both. My hope is that JC has made the numbers and margin profitable,only a fool would do otherwise.
We can only guess the numbers required and only have the size of orders to date in comparison to the number of smart meters installed and working in India or indeed elsewhere to define the likely requirements for CC. If anyone has any idea of the margin per unit I would be interested. AIMO of course.

Tony, " Intellismart has got caught by rubbish vendors. There is now a determination to push. Notice we were not aware of this March quality check until Hardman, thought Colour would have got the lowdown."
I appreciate your background is not with contract procurement but it's called due diligence and a usual part at the beginning of the contract planning stage . Any procurement team not fully checking the risks,solvency and suitably would not be in place very long. If you are correct and the Itellismart team made such a huge mistake it would be interesting to see how many heads have rolled.

"The country will prepare a list of approved models and manufacturers who can sell in India, Singh said. " For me Tony that confirms to me there are competitors, if you recall JC said so himself a while back. To think otherwise would be naieve. Hopefully CC will as I say get a share.

Hi Tony. Around the 4th paragraph.
"The country will prepare a list of approved models and manufacturers who can sell in India, Singh said. " Raj Kumar Singh is Power Minister? So I would guess he would know.
Hopefully CC will get a share. In my view no contract as large as what is being suggested in India would go to a single supplier due to the risk involved. Hence interoperability is one of the main requirements.
One other thing crossed my mind. Why are the big players from North America not getting involved? Maybe they don't think enough profit? I guess they can always sit in the fence and just take someone out at some point. I guess time will reveal all.