Member Info for greygeorge

I know you're a sponge (meant as a compliment), absorbing as much info as you can, questioning, debating. You'll have a good future in investing. The others here ? I bet in the next 3 to 12 months they'll be ******** about one (or more) of their speculative punts that hasn't paid off. the sheep here are destined to be fleeced time and time again. And I have no sympathy for any of them. There's just no excuse for stupid.

Oh, yes, they're all on holiday, aren't they ? lol.

This is EXACTLY what would have happened if the 'no' vote had taken place. So asog have achieved their aims, I think we see this by their relative silence, lol. they don't seem to be screaming 'foul' as much as their sheep are doing at the moment. Puzzling, that, lol.

The creditors put them into admin Isengard, to get their money back. If it had been compulsory, it would probably have just meant the company would be wound up and a 'fire sale' of assets would take place. by going down this road, the creditors and afren have agreed to act in both their best interests under the circumstances. It's not about the sh any more, sorry. It's what I've been trying to tell asog for a while now, the creditors won't suffer too much whatever the sh would have decided in 'the vote'. (OK not very well put I know, but I think that's the 'gist' of it).

I'm sure this was factored into asog's action plan and risk assessment though. I wonder why they didn't discuss this possibility when you were asking your questions though, great and wise as they are ? They were probably too busy wetting themselves chuckling at the purile insults being thrown at you by their sheep to have the time to answer, lol.

Isengard, I take it from this excerpt from my earlier post '..... During the reorganisation period, as a result, the administrator usually runs the business rather than the directors, and any additional liquidity requirements effectively have to be met by funds provided by existing creditors rather than by any super-senior 'DIP financing......' that the bondholders decided if they needed to be putting more money in, then they decided the only course of action to protect their funding was to force afren to go down this route. I know the question of additional funding is one you've been asking for a couple of weeks now, may be this answers your question ? The company is no longer in control of it's assets, having gone into admin. The bondholders probably felt this was the only way they would put any more money into afren ?

don't know if your earlier question was answered, but asog, or any pressure group' are as impotent now as they were before administration. the administrator is duty bound to get best prices for any asset sales, based on market conditions, time constraints, etc. The first billion (and a half ?) or so will go to creditors, administrator fees, etc. etc. gas bills, leccy bills, staff wages, etc. etc. Once Mrs. Cleaner has been paid, if she was able to get a special deal on the last box of teabags consumed at afren hq, the shareholders may be able to share the petty cash tin between them. Unless she bought some biscuits. It's all about the biscuits at this point, as to what you may get back.

It's all about the creditors now, and whatever the outcome, there will be nothing for shareholders.

'...........In UK law, the administration regime is governed by the Insolvency Act 1986, as amended by the Enterprise Act 2002. An "administrator" can be appointed without petitioning the court by the holder of a floating charge (created since 15 September 2003), by the company or by its directors. Other creditors must petition the court to appoint an administrator. The administrator must act in the interests of all the creditors and attempt to rescue the company as a going concern. If this proves impossible he or she must work to maximise the recovery of the creditors as a whole. Only then may the administrator attempt to realise property in favour of one or more secured creditor. A firm is usually in Administration for no more than 12 months, after which an extension from the court can be produced at the courts discretion.[5] Administration is analogous to going into "Chapter 11" in the United States, although there are certain key differences, mainly stemming from the fact that English law does not include the debtor in possession concept. During the reorganisation period, as a result, the administrator usually runs the business rather than the directors, and any additional liquidity requirements effectively have to be met by funds provided by existing creditors rather than by any super-senior 'DIP financing......'.

Just been reading here briefly. I think you'll find the US has different bankruptcy fling types (chapter '7', '11' etc.), which can protect an individual or company from their creditors, and they are able sometimes to 'emerge' and continue trading. We don't have those options in the UK, when you're gone, you're gone (as far as shareholders are concerned).

Now THAT would make sense, lol !!!! goodnight / morning.

Bye for now Isengard.

Tell you what though, one of Buffets philosophies i don't believe in is his philanthropy. I think multi millionaires and up should be taxed , not be relied upon to give their estates away voluntarilly. Just my opinion. But I think that's a whole new conversation, lol.

Ok, I better go, I'm getting silly now (the snowflake was silly, the fractals I am semi-seriously working on). Oh, I think I've heard mention of him, but only on one of those tv interviews with buffet, didn't he read him when he was a teenager ? I'll look that up tomorrow, i may be wrong but I better get gone for tonight. have to walk andy'p's cat while he's away. Or feed it. Or something, lol.

I'm still looking for the first share graph that resembles a snowflake, then I'll be good to go.

The joke should have come before the apology, it switched order, how'd it do taht ? lol

Seriously though, I hate those who write books, divulge their strategies, by the time I read it, everybody already knows and it's not a secret, lol. I'll let you into a big secret, which makes me sound quite mad, i knaow, but I'm working on fractals, not fibinache graphs or technical stuff, it's very early on in its development though.

Sorry Isengard, lol.

Yes, books like that can be very heavy.

Macroeconomics eh ? Lol. I didn't even get a maths 'o' level, but worked with numbers (not in any meaningful or important way, lol) ever since leaving school, real life numbers are much more fun (fun ? can't believe I said that !) than they were in school.